dryloc with fiberglass (480gal tank build)

[CJH]

Yeah i know, i'm starting to get worried about all of this.. I don't want leaks, but overall i don't want any chemical smells, or to spend a couple hundred dollars for it not to work anyway..

i think i might just build a 50 gal tank and try it out first..
450+ gallons is a lot of water no matter how you fill it up

The smell of polyester goes away, it's just nasty to be around when using large amounts of it at a time. I actually don't mind the smell of polyester in small batches.

If you're going to build a small tank first, I would at least consider starting with something in the 48x24x24 range. Essentially the biggest tank you can build from a single sheet of 4x8 material not including top bracing.

Few cuts, less waste and a bigger tank. Makes sense to me. You can always skip the glass and use it for a sump in the future.

 

[Bsixxx]

The smell of polyester goes away, it's just nasty to be around when using large amounts of it at a time. I actually don't mind the smell of polyester in small batches.

If you're going to build a small tank first, I would at least consider starting with something in the 48x24x24 range. Essentially the biggest tank you can build from a single sheet of 4x8 material not including top bracing.

Few cuts, less waste and a bigger tank. Makes sense to me. You can always skip the glass and use it for a sump in the future.

good idea..
I'll have to think about all this a little more.
I want to finish the whole monitor enclosure first before I start thinking about all of this.

 

[spiff]

What if you just lined it with ceramic tiles or something like that? A monitor could still rip the tiles out eventually, but you could always glue them back. But with a tile liner you could use a standard waterproofing method. I'm not sure you'll find anything that is monitor proof.

If you're just making a pool with out a window, a simple pond liner with some stone or ceramic tile protection might be the cheapest and easiest way to go..

 

[brianhellno]

Dude seriously just do a lot of reading before you make any decisions. Here, I did the first part for you:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6406499

Now read through the builds, take it in and see what they did, then go with what you think would be the best decision. That way you'll see what works what doesn't and you might get some ideas that you could use for your build.

 

[greenterra]

Your article, while containing some interesting material, stinks of quackery. They have one source cited, written in 1987. They go so far as to blame osmosis for the problem (do they know how osmosis works?). They also quite clearly state that gelcoat is permeable, which contradicts what you have said (did you read the article?). Many fiberglass boats have a lifespan of 30+ years, and even if this kind of damage occurs, it is usually cosmetic. Aquatic Ecosystems make FRP ponds, as do many other manufacturers. I and several other MFKers (including AnythingFish with his giant outdoor monstertank) have made polyester sealed tanks and decorations without issue. It might interest you to know also that acrylic is water permeable - should we stop using that to make tanks as well? Please stop telling people Polyester is unsafe and perpetuating this MYTH.

A Direct Quote, please forgive the spelling mistakes, belying their inscrutable academic credentials: "It appears to be effecting all conventionally built polyester fiberglass bottoms that are continually immersed. It is our experience that all boats built with conventional polyester resin and gelkote, show signs of hydrolysis deterioration of the outer laminates after 5 to 10 years of immersion."

I'll take 5 to 10 years of life out of a plywood tank, thanks. Not to mention, we're not even talking about an aquarium here but a Monitor enclosure.

Firstly, I have never said it is unsafe. Unsafe and waterproof are very different. I am advocating that polyester resin is not water proof and as such is not a good choice for sealing plywood. You note that acrylic is also water permeable. Well yes but just like normal polyester fiberglass only constructed boats, polyester fish ponds, pools or even rain water tanks it doesn't have ply sitting behind it to soak up moisture. In these applications, being water permeable is not so much an issue except for the osmosis in the resinous materials itself. The problem is when combined with ply or timber, the wood is usually damaged long before the polyester based resins have shown any damage itself. Hence the reason epoxy is better suited in the timber boat building industries. I use polyester frequently in canoe construction and previously owned a sign manufacturing company in which our products were made of polyester fiberglass. We also did a lot of boat repairs so I am not a newbee to the industry. The facts are, when it comes to water proofing a ply tank that is to hold water, epoxy is 100% the better choice over polyester. You may be happy with as little as 5yrs out of a ply tank but I hope to be enjoying mine a lot lot longer.
As I understood from Bsixxx, his question was in relation to a 480g tank inside the monitor enclosure and not for the enclosure itself.
As for me perpetuating a myth, well I offer you to bring your humble opinion to any decent timber boat building forum and prove it a myth. Here's a good one to start.http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/protecting-plywood-polyester-resin-14325.html

 

[Bsixxx]

thanks for all the help guys..
please try to keep my thread on topic..

 

[brianhellno]

thanks for all the help guys..
please try to keep my thread on topic..

No problem man always glad to try to help. Although my last post more had you reading than me actually making a suggestion but I thought for this post I'll link you to some material that looks perfect. Especially for an enclosure with a monitor that has the potential to gouge through pond coatings.

http://www.liquidrubber.ca/video/NewVideo.html

Its called Zavlar and aside from it being hard to get in the states if you live in Canada your set. If you watched the whole video you'll see that not only can this stuff withstand one hell of a puncture attempt, but even if it is punctured it can flex and reseal itself essentially patching its own leak. Basically you would probably never even know you had a breech in the seal.

Since you don't have your location listed if your in the United states you'll have to call around and hopefully you live close to a distributor.

Canadian Site:

http://www.liquidrubber.ca/Zavlar.asp

United States Site:

http://www.permadri.com/pond-coat.html

(In the United States its called Perma Dri.)

 

[cvermeulen]

thanks for all the help guys..
please try to keep my thread on topic..

I was reasonably sure that the debate over Polyester was relevant to your topic, broad and vague as your original statement was.

Greenterra - don't retreat to technicalities. My point is that when you say "polyester is not waterproof, and is thus not a good choice" you are making a large leap of logic and you discredit a cheap, easy to use, widely available, and perfectly viable material for building tanks, ponds, and boats. You say epoxy is "better" but you don't define what "better" is. Epoxy is often more toxic while uncured, more complicated to mix, more difficult to spread, and more expensive. It also does not tend to sink in as far and form a bond deep into the wood (of course depending what kind you use.) I'll grant you that some water molecules can soak into the surface of FRP laminates, but this does not mean its seeping through to the wood, any more than your hand gets wet when you wipe an acrylic tank; And it certainly doesn't mean it's not a good choice. As I stated earlier, I have seen many, many boats built this way that are over 30 years old with only minor damage to their surfaces - mostly from UV.

 

[toweraquaticservices]

Drylock= Doomed to failure.

Not sure why everyone is so down on Drylok. I would definately NOT use it directly to the plywood that will be submerged. I personally lined the inside of my tank with 1/4" hardi, 45'd all seams and then applied the Drylok, with 30 degree temp swings and me pulling and pushing on it for weeks, and I cant find a scratch, crack, or weak spot. I believe it to be a good product, I guess I will see in the long run.

 

[Mysta513]

is drylok that bad? lol