Dwarf Hairgrass Compatability- HELP!

[chazwood918]

Ok I consider myself to be an extremely knowledgeable and experienced freshwater keeper. That said, any of you reading this who feel the same way would likely agree that just because you read something online, doesn't necessarily make it fact. So I come to you guys for help and advice based more on experience and possibility than the generic answers.

I currently have a 90 gallon setup with fake plants and rocks along with several fish, an established tank of 2+ years. I just purchased a 150 gallon tank and want to try something new; which is where you guys come in. My goal is a 150 gallon self contained ecosystem using live plant life. I'm well aware of the fact that proper lighting, plant selection, and CO2 levels will result in clean nutrient rich water, healthy plants, healthy fish, and perhaps best of all; plants that eat fish poop!

I really like the look of grass as the base and have read quite a bit about dwarf hair grass being hearty (Can flourish in play sand), easy to maintain, and fast growing. From there I'll work on adding other plants and mosses but I wanted to see if I can possibly have a grass aquarium before going any further. I have 4 wild cards to worry about as far compatibility goes.

1) A Black Ghost Knife- I highly doubt it would be an issue. But I can't find any information on them in planted aquariums at all.

2) Tiger Botia- Again, I don't see him being an issue either. However, I know that they explore substrate for food on occasion but like the BGK I have yet to see any information on them in planted aquariums.

3) Blue Phantom Pleco- Everything I've read has said that only bristlenose or smaller plecos are compatible. However, this guys isn't a common pleco nor does he share the normal mannerisms of most plecos. He almost exclusively eats bloodworms, brine shrimp, or zucchini. It doesn't eat algae wafers, never cleans the spots of algae that form right before a clean, and only leaves his hiding spots when he hears me open the lid to feed. I firmly believe that given ample driftwood caves that he would remain in there and leave the grass alone. I've also read that most plecos don't really mess with dwarf hairgrass anyway.

4) An infant snowflake lobster- He currently is in a test tank with wisteria and java fern. As what I consider to be the biggest threat to any plant life, I decided to try him out. He's been very passive, although I have seen him testing the taste of a few leaves but hasn't caused any actual damage. I've read that they will any and all plant matter, I've also read that they clip grass, but still other sources claim that with proper feeding that they will often leave plants alone once they have dug themselves out a burrow.


What is everyone's advice/experience with this!? I'm going to try it anyway and if it doesnt work I'll overhaul and go back to not having live plants, but if anyone thinks that this tank is a possibility even with extra work; please let me know. PS- what is the danger to fish by adding plant life to an established tank? And how deep should the substrate be for dwarf grass?

 

[Fat Homer]

Im going to give you a somewhat generic answer since i dont own any of the fish in question with plants, except for when i had marble crays in one of my old planted tanks...

The problem with crays is that they can and most likely will trim leaves or stalks off plants iif they feel like it... Mine used to randomly chop off whole stems off anubias plants i had possibly to make a more suitable home, but if you have an established carpet going i dont think it will do too much damage, but might leave some un-sightly patches of shorter grass...

As for plecos, unless they are small i guess the fear is like any other large fish in a planted tank, which is they may disturb the soil and cause the plants to be uprooted... Naturally this will cause a lot of replanting from you and stress to the plants...

Also, its not always on purpose a large fish disturbs the substrate, they could get spooked, they could go looking for a piece of food that fell somewhere..

So is it worth doing a carpet maybe debateable depending how you see it, but i dont see why you could use some other plants such as anubias which if you want could tie down to something to prevent it from being moved around much...

Thats also why now that i got into planted tanks i only keep small fish or shrimps to prevent the scape from being damaged and well maintained...

Hope that helps a little...


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[HybridHerp]

Skip the cray. BGK work fine, I have one in my planted tank, and pelvis can be hit or miss and that's up to how well you know you fish. I've done it before though, and it worked out fine.

DHG will work, but do yourself a few favors first.
1. For substrate use dirt capped with whatever you like (for sand I recommend pool filter sand)
2. Get your pressurized co2 set up first, it's easier that way to have it already than to start without it.
3. Dry start your DHg (try and get Belem variety, it stays smaller and looks nicer), dry staring will have it fill in faster and easier.
4. Get quality lights, don't skimp out. I recommend Catalina lights, they make high quality t5ho lights and will customize it
5. Have lots and lots if timers
6. Figure out how you want to dose fertilizers. EI or PPS-Pro method are fantastic, and additional osmocote tabs on hand are a wonderful thing as well.
7. Lets the plants grow out first before putting in larger fish, or potentially destructive fish.

Any questions, just ask.


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[Wulfonce]

My 2 cents...

I'm growing dwarf hair grass (amongst other plants) in my 65g community. The whole tank is thriving even though I'm not using proper soil (just standard gravel). I find that the grass grows vertically at about 2" a week but wont spread out. I've read about people having success geting it to spread by keeping the grass trimmed down, but then again I hear alot of people kill there grass that way. If you intend to have most of the aquarium covered in grass, I'd say that's a pretty ambitious plan, and unless you start out with a heck of alot of grass, you probably wont succeed. Which brings me on to point 2.

I'm not real familiar with the pleco you mentioned, but if it grows to the 5+" range I could see it ripping up the grass just by moving around. Hairgrass is a very fragile plant and can be uprooted easily. The Ghost Knife I am familiar with, and as long as it doesn't freak out often, I don't see it being a problem.

If your after a "carpet effect" I'd recommend going with Baby Tears. I find it spreads out very quickly. I started out with a small pot of it (about 2"x2") and now, about 2 months later I have around 8"x8". In my experience with both these plants the baby tears is clearly the more hardy of the two. To sum this up, if you're stuck on the hair grass, try a small amount of it before dropping large dollars on a whole carpet, because I really don't think its going to work out for you. Sorry to say.

 

[chazwood918]

Hey guys thank you so much for the quick responses and sharing your knowledge; that's exactly why I came to you. The blue phantom is already about 4" but really is very calm, I really think that if I do a foreground of some sort of grass and give him some good drift wood and rock caves that he won't bother it too much; although I do think I agree the fact that I'll have to have it pretty well set up before putting him in there so that the roots are more sturdy and established. And the BGK is the clear king of the tank (he's about 8-9") and I can hand feed him. I may very well have to skip on the cray; which I can definitely do, I was just hoping somebody had had success with them.

The main fish going in are bala sharks (5), an iridescent shark, a rainbow shark, and an angelica cat. On top of that I would like to purchase 5 roseline sharks and maybe an otocinclus or 2.....

Wulfonce- I have read the same thing about trimming DHG. My deciding on DHG was based off it needing very little to flourish and it apparently loves sand. I've read that with it properly spread out and good lighting that I will get runners fairly quickly. I'm unfamiliar with baby tears but I'm obviously willing to look into any and all options. Also note- I don't plan on skipping out on lighting or any facet of this project; it's just that for now I know nothing about CO2 injections and the entire process seems foreign to me. My plan was to get a good solid start with the grass and once I have an understanding of that I will move on to midground and background plants that will need more care and undoubtedly CO2.

If you guys have ANY more advice on this I would love to hear it!

 

[mr.bigglesworth]

Irridescent sharks get over 3 feet long. Not suitable in a 125g tank. Also with this much bioload it wont be self sustaining. Even cutting down your stocklist to just the bgk it wont be self sustaining. Not even close. You could do like 10 guppies and that's it. THAT would be self-sustaining with the plants. Otherwise stick to weekly water changes of at least 50%.

 

[Fat Homer]

Honestly, i think the DHG will work better than baby tears...

Since baby tears can be quite unforgiving if it gets a little too warm, also, there roots tend to be a lot shorter which means they may uproot more easily...


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[chazwood918]

The iridescents are a longggg way away from being too large for the 150g. I'm aware of the max sizes of the fish at adult sizes; the 150 just a step along the way of upgrading for the fish as the grow. As of now the 125 is more than sufficient space for what I have. I do however, appreciate the advice on the bioload. I have no problem with continuing water changes, even if the goal is to have the plants balance it out. So I assume based on that advice that plants are slow on absorbing the fish waste? Keep in mind I am planning on continuing to add plants once I have a the DHG base setup... And thank you Homer; I'll go with the DHG then.

 

[HybridHerp]

Wait, you plan on not running a filter? That's honestly a bad idea. My 75 is going to be densely planted and stocked to a similar degree as your tank, and even then I run 2 canisters and do 50% weekly


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[Wulfonce]

Honestly, i think the DHG will work better than baby tears...

Since baby tears can be quite unforgiving if it gets a little too warm, also, there roots tend to be a lot shorter which means they may uproot more easily...


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Just adding to this, with no intention of it turning it into an argument... (sometimes people flip out lol)

I wont disagree with baby tears uprooting easily. In fact I've had a few 2" corys that have managed to do it (I'm not using sand?). Anyway, he intends to make a carpet. I've had no success making hairgrass spread out and from what I've read online, other people struggle with it to. The baby tears on the other hand, I cant stop it from spreading.

To original poster:

If you plan on buying enough to make the whole carpet, by all means go with the hair grass. If you want it to spread over time with little effort, then I highly recommend the baby tears. But either way I'd recommend trying a small amount of whatever you choose before spending large dollars on a whole carpet.

You may also want to look into java moss. I hear that stuff spreads like hornwart, and can take over the tank if you let it. I've never kept it myself so idk for sure.