Dwarf (?) pike cichlid Id and advice please

[Mazan]

I have just seen these in my local shop and am very interested in them. But first I would like to confirm that they are definitely a dwarf species. I think they might be the orinoco dwarf pike, they came from the same region (river?) as altums. And the fisherman has said that are dwarf pikes. I saw that one female had a red and black dorsal fin ocellus but couldn't get a photo to show this.

Unfortunately I don't have a spare tank that I could set up specifically for these, but would like opinions as to whether any of my existing tanks would be suitable.

I have one 240 litre tank, 120cm long with some Copellas and one Apistogramma, it has plants, branches and leaf litter. This would have been very suitable if I hadn't just recently added some cardinal tetras to the tank, they are still very small and would probably be at risk of being eaten?

I also have a densely planted tank that measures 160 x 60 x 60cm (about 570 litres or 150 gallons). This has larger tetras, pencilfish, 5 big angelfish, and three Laetacara araguaiae and Otocinclus. This might be OK??

The third option is a larger South American cichlid tank with 6 x Mesonauta, 1 severum, 2 Uarus and a blue acara, also diamond and bentosi tetras. Of these I think I would be most concerned about the blue acara as it has a big mouth and is rather more aggressive than the rest. The pike cichlids are pretty small and thin
This tank is more like a biotope with branches, roots, leaf litter a few Vallisneria plants and water lettuce.

Ok so here they are:
.

 

[duanes]

They do look like Orinoco dwarf to me (and agree, all look like males in the photo).
Your 1st two options sound doable, the 3rd a little iffy.

 

[Mazan]

Thanks for your reply. The first option I don’t know, wouldn’t they eat the small cardinals? If the second option how many would be be best to get? And do you know if they dig up plants?

 

[duanes]

I've never kept that species of dwarf, but even the larger versions I have kept, were not plant uprooters.
and .......
Not so sure about the safety of the cardinals, the orinoco's close cousin C. animiri males barely hit 3",I have not seen how large these get.
I always try to get at least half dozen of any cichlid, and heavy on the females.
The problem I have had with pikes, is as older juvies they tend to eat each other.
I bought a bag of 10 at a GCCA auction, and put them in a 125 gal tank, within a month I ended up with 1 (the largest female).
I saw her with smaller males, half way down her gullet.
At the same auction, a friend also bought a bag of 10, and a month later he ended up with 1 male (don't know the size tank he used).

These were not dwarf, and have more of a piscavorine mouth, which may be a determining factor.

 

[Mazan]

I've never kept that species of dwarf, but even the larger versions I have kept, were not plant uprooters.
and .......
Not so sure about the safety of the cardinals, the orinoco's close cousin C. animiri males barely hit 3",I have not seen how large these get.
I always try to get at least half dozen of any cichlid, and heavy on the females.
The problem I have had with pikes, is as older juvies they tend to eat each other.
I bought a bag of 10 at a GCCA auction, and put them in a 125 gal tank, within a month I ended up with 1 (the largest female).
I saw her with smaller males, half way down her gullet.
At the same auction, a friend also bought a bag of 10, and a month later he ended up with 1 male (don't know the size tank he used).
View attachment 1508877
These were not dwarf, and have more of a piscavorine mouth, which may be a determining factor.
View attachment 1508878

Yes, I have read before about the big pikes eating each other! I assume the dwarfs are not that bad, but still can be pretty aggressive to each other more than to other fish. There is conflicting information about the best numbers and sex combination to keep them in.

 

[Fishman Dave]

Agree on the id but is the fish on the left in first photo and the fish third in from left (left of middle) in the second photo not a female?
Dorsal down but both appear to be sporting red/dorsal spots?
Not overly experienced in them but previously told even though they are only mildly aggressive they are quite territorial for dwarfs so ideally either need a pair or large numbers (16 kind of range) but then need a very large tank.
one of the smallest dwarfs but those cardinals wouldn’t make it.

 

[Mazan]

Agree on the id but is the fish on the left in first photo and the fish third in from left (left of middle) in the second photo not a female?
Dorsal down but both appear to be sporting red/dorsal spots?
Not overly experienced in them but previously told even though they are only mildly aggressive they are quite territorial for dwarfs so ideally either need a pair or large numbers (16 kind of range) but then need a very large tank.
one of the smallest dwarfs but those cardinals wouldn’t make it.

Yes, looking again at the photos you are right it is possible to see those dorsal spots. I have been reading a bit more and some people say they get to 5-6” so I think the tank with the cardinals would be too small for them eventually anyway. And the big planted tank has pencilfish that might be vulnerable too. What about the big cichlid tank? Is there a risk that the little pikes could be eaten? Or would they hide and or get away fast? I don’t know

 

[Fishman Dave]

Surprised folks think this type of dwarf pike cichlid get 5-6 “ - I think they max out at 4” but could be wrong. I would think at 4” the pencils being a mid to upper water fish should be ok, especially as the pikes are small and would grow up with them. Think dwarf pikes are too small for the cichlid tank right now unless everything else is real juvies.

 

[A201]

Welcome to MFK. Plenty of very knowledgeable & advanced fishkeepers here.
Recognized you from the FL forum.

 

[Mazan]

Welcome to MFK. Plenty of very knowledgeable & advanced fishkeepers here.
Recognized you from the FL forum.

Yes, I thought it worth posting on a forum dedicated to Crenicichla. There seems to be conflicting information about their eventual size though. Both C. regani and C. notophthalmus males are supposed to get to 15 cm in aquaria though.