Jakob;4132834; said:
When breeding EBJD to JD, do the sexes of the pair matter? Like is it better to have a female EBJD and a male JD or better to have a male EBJD and a female JD?
It doesn't matter, it works both ways...
I've never used a female Blue to produce Blue offspring, but I've made two batches of BG using a Blue female and I've gotten impressive BG breeders out of her offspring both times...
Jakob;4132853; said:
This is what i know:
JDxJD=JD
JDxEBJD=BGJD
EBJDxEBJD=Nothing
EBJDx BGJD=EBJD
That's a little overly simplified... the first two are right but,
EBJG x EBJD = 100% Blue offspring, but they will not survive past a few weeks... Suggesting the result is "nothing" is likely to mislead people...
EBJD x BGJD = 50% Blue, 50% BG
Jakob;4132853; said:
But what happens if you cross:
JDxBGJD=?
BGJDxBGJD=?
I agree with the others...
Standard x BG = 50% BG, 50% Standard... which are indestiguishable...
BG x BG = 25% Blue, 50% BG, 25% Standard
flowerpower;4132889; said:
I also heard that most EBJD's tend to be male.
My suspecion is... at birth the ratio in male to famle of Blue Dempseys is fairly equal... but females tend to be genetically weaker and most do not survive to a sellable size.
I, as well as many others, have gotten Blue females... but the experience has been very consistent that they grow quite slow, stay abnormally small, often die unexplainably... 2 of my three breeding adult females died unexplainably when they otherwise seemed completely healthy before they were 3 years old...
Sprungster;4133828; said:
Its better to have a male EBJD and a regular female for two reasons:
1. A regular JD is likely to produce more eggs than an EBJD.
2. The pair is probably going to go through some rough courtship and since the EBJD tends to be more delicate, it is better to have a male EBJD as they are larger and stronger than the females. Make sure your JD female is not too big...she might destroy your ebjd male.
There definitely is some truth in that...
Although ion my experience the aggression comes from the female toward the male. The male just wants to spread his genes, it is the female who wants to test her potential mate to ensure she is getting the genes of a tough male.
I've bred two different Blue females with large powerful Standard males and in neither experience did the Blue females get hurt to any degree.
I had a Blue x Blue pair together for quite some time (2 years) and the male, who was considerably larger, never hurt the female in any way. She got a little nippy with him but he never 'went to far' defending himself.
I once had a Blue male that was a very tough fish. At around 4~5" he killed a BG male that was slightly larger than him. At 6" I put him in with a slightly smaller but very tough/aggressive standard female and that female ate his face off. Quite literally, in crazy aggressive liplocking, at his face off... I do mean off... He survived but was never the same...
So in conclusion, I don't think there is a simple answer to which works better... I think there are simply to many variables at work to slap a simple answer on this question...
Sprungster;4135342; said:
Crossing BGXBG is probably the best way to go in order to produce EBJD.
Based on logic and research... I completely agree with this. This method introduces the most "non Blue" blood to the offspring and in theory gives them a decent advantage...
Based on personal experience, I don't think it really helps any...
I've made half a dozen or so different Blue x BG pairs and over a dozen BG x BG pairs... none of them sibling pairs and putting as much distance in all of them as possible...
I find quite frequently two fish just do not make good babies together, but when paired with a different partner can make good babies...
Talking to those educated and experienced in genetics/gynomics this doesn't seem abnormal or surprising... Althuogh the dynamics at work behind it are far to complicated to summarize. I can't say I understand it, but it makes sense...
A few years ago I was convinced that excessive inbreeding was the cause of the Blue Dempseys problems. These days I'm placing a lot more of that blame on the genetic mutation that results in the Blue coloration. But I still feel that inbreeding is weakening the line and should be avoided at all costs.
Thus I do support making BG x BG pairs, but doins so as a method of reducing the effects of inbreeding. So using BG siblings to make pairs (in my opinion) is defeating any benefit that making BG pairs might have to offer...
