Effects of origin on Cichlid coloration

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Not to argue with anyone above, but ime longer, pointier fins and/or hump on the head for males (hump varies between individuals ime), pretty much as you can see in the photos above. Color not necessarily much difference, again, depending on particular fish. At what size/age you can distinguish them varies with individual and/or how perceptive you are, but as mentioned above they need to get some size to them to see it and, yes, you can get fooled sometimes.

Exactly... The fish will vary with genetics and the environment so every individual will tend to be somewhat different. I believe color can tell you a great difference with the the gender, not necessarily all fish but regarding Green Terrors. I realize this is dependent on a person's level of perception, so this is also opinion when I mention color differences. Size certainly helps, but determining the gender is not always dependent on size. I also agree that sometimes people can be fooled. :)


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Sure, there are external differences between the sex, but you have to wait till the fish are over 4 inch. The first pic are all males with hump developed, and the second pic is a female. These fish are big, between 6 to 9 inch, when the sexual differences become obvious.

I raised 100s of GT from fry to adulthood, and have difficulty telling the sex apart until they are at least 4 inch. I am still surprised from time to time to mis ID the sex as the more colorful, larger fish turned into female. There are simply no external differences between sex when GT are small and need to reach 4 inch or larger to be sexable.

Those are beautiful Green Terrors! :) I notice two do have the nuchal hump! Looking good man, keep up the good work! (There is a big difference in coloration in my opinion, I also realize they are adults, but with a skillful eye, a person can identify the differences when young; not always but a lot of times a trained eye can identify the differences.) ;)


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I also do not understand why many people tend to think all males have a nuchal hump or will always develop a nuchal hump; this is simply false information because many many male Green Terrors do not develop nuchal humps. Some do develop them and some do not develop them
I agree and that's exactly why I said "and/or" hump and added the qualification that "hump varies between individuals ime"-- trying to cover my tail on that point. :)

I've had big, older, dominant males that didn't develop what I'd call a hump, but they did have a more prominent, steeper sloped forehead than the females. At least that's my own experience and pretty consistent with what I've ever seen.

As with size difference, head shape differences are more evident/easier to discern when you've grown them up together in the same conditions/same food, and easier to tell in person, compared to looking at photos of fish of varying ages, with individual differences, etc. Females having shorter or more blunt looking fins is usually one of the earlier things I notice in growing them up. But-- this difference assumes absence of fin-nipping, so not foolproof. IMO color differences aren't reliable as far as comparing green terrors from different sources, in different tanks, different water, different food, different lighting, photo quality, etc. But you can compare males and females in your own tank, from the same source etc.
 
I agree and that's exactly why I said "and/or" hump and added the qualification that "hump varies between individuals ime"-- trying to cover my tail on that point. :)

I've had big, older, dominant males that didn't develop what I'd call a hump, but they did have a more prominent, steeper sloped forehead than the females. At least that's my own experience and pretty consistent with what I've ever seen.

As with size difference, head shape differences are more evident/easier to discern when you've grown them up together in the same conditions/same food, and easier to tell in person, compared to looking at photos of fish of varying ages, with individual differences, etc. Females having shorter or more blunt looking fins is usually one of the earlier things I notice in growing them up. But-- this difference assumes absence of fin-nipping, so not foolproof. IMO color differences aren't reliable as far as comparing green terrors from different sources, in different tanks, different water, different food, different lighting, photo quality, etc. But you can compare males and females in your own tank, from the same source etc.

Yeah, I agree with what you were mentioning. The lighting can definitely be a large influence and it is different identifying fish somewhat in person so this factor should also be considered. ;) also, just so you know I was talking about other people with the hump. ;)


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All cichlids need to reach certain size before they can be sexed. Many CA/SA female, such as Festas and Texax, developed a black blotch on the dorsal fin as young as 2 inch so they can be sexed early. JD females show green streaks on the lower gill plate that is absent in male and can be sexed as little as 3 inch. GT has no such external sex markers so they can't be sexed early even with experienced eyes. Not all GT males develop big hump, some not at all, but all males develop steeper forehead than female, but hump development comes too late to be useful for sexing. Bright color is not a sure way to sex juvenile GT either because dominant females can show brilliant color, specially if they are the left over from a dealer tank.
 
All cichlids need to reach certain size before they can be sexed. Many CA/SA female, such as Festas and Texax, developed a black blotch on the dorsal fin as young as 2 inch so they can be sexed early. JD females show green streaks on the lower gill plate that is absent in male and can be sexed as little as 3 inch. GT has no such external sex markers so they can't be sexed early even with experienced eyes. Bright color is not a sure way to sex juvenile GT either because dominant females can show brilliant color, specially if they are the left over from a dealer tank.

At some point cichlids do need to reach a certain size before they can be sexed because a person can not identify fry or most likely can not identify a half inch fish, but at some point early on a person may be able to identify the sex as soon as the fish conveys enough to convey clues as to the gender; again, it just depends on the amount of experience and if the person is able to identify with their ability of perception. Think about it, your claim of 4" and a person can "then" identify the sex; not everyone can identify the sex even at four inches, five inches, or six inches. Just because you or someone can not identify the fish early does not mean it is impossible. Jack Dempsey, Texas, and Festae are a completely different species as well as genus and have different external markers to identify the fish. Finally, I somewhat agree with you saying females can also have brilliant color but the difference is the color scheme is almost completely different. The female will not have the same colors and tones as a male. Orangish-red to white markings yes, but the difference in the hue of the green scale pattern no way.



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