electric blue dempsey mystery

[fsc46]

I wonder if anyone who breeds jacks has had any blue Dempsey fry. Anyone have blue fry from regular jacks? MFK is huge! If they come from regular jacks then someone must have blue jacks from a regular pair. Let’s put this mystery to rest. Common folks lets see what we can come up with.

I've read all the links and stories. I presonally believe they are mixed. Why else wouldn't 2 blue's be able to breed? If they come from regular jacks then they would be very common. Just my 2 cents.

edit: Mixed equals hybrid.

 

[xEchOx]

I've read all the links and stories. I presonally believe they are mixed. Why else wouldn't 2 blue's be able to breed? If they come from regular jacks then they would be very common. Just my 2 cents.

What do you mean mixed?
Genetics, blah. Well each DNA strand is made up of two strands of gene codes, one from each parent. The result is a mix of DNA from each parent cell. One of the genes from each parent will be dominant, the other recessive. The recessive gene will not be expressed physically, but be 'carried'. The dominant, of course, will be expressed. (In reality, its not this simple, there are things such as 'co-dominance', and etc., etc. but we won't get into that.)

The electric blue trait is a result of a recessive mutated gene, somewhat like albinism. In order for the trait to be expressed physically, both parents must carry the recessive gene. Lets compare it to something easier to understand... for example brown eyes, and blue eyes. It is a known fact that Brown is the dominant gene color. Can two parents with brown eyes have a child with blue eyes? Yes. As long as both parents carry the recessive gene for blue eyes. So lets go to Punnet Squares. Bstands for brown, and b stands for blue. Bb x Bb = BB, Bb, Bb, bb. What the *&#$ does that mean? Well, BB= Brown eyes-this child carries only genes for brown eyes, and has brown eyes. Bb=Brown eyes-this child carries genes for brown eyes and blue eyes, but brown is the dominant color. bb= blue eyes-this child has the only combination of genes that would allow two parents with brown eyes to have a child with blue eyes.

Is this how the Electric blue trait works? I don't know. In my opinion it's not this simple. It obviously involves a mutated gene, because it is a color morp. But so does albinism, and they are much more common than Electric blues. I don't know. I don't even know if what I just wrote makes any sense... Hopefully I helped as many people as I confused.

 

[fsc46]

Thanks for the write up!

But it doesn't explain why they can't breed. It's rare for a hybrid pair to breed. Which is the case for E. Blue Dempsey's.

That's why I'm asking MFK members if they have regular jack's that have produced ebj. Chances are that someone on here would have a pair with the gene or actually seen a friends someone pair.

 

[JustinC]

Thanks for the write up!

But it doesn't explain why they can't breed. It's rare for a hybrid pair to breed. Which is the case for E. Blue Dempsey's.

That's why I'm asking MFK members if they have regular jack's that have produced ebj. Chances are that someone on here would have a pair with the gene or actually seen a friends someone pair.

Pairs of EBJD's do form and it is not that they can't breed. They cannot produce viable fry. The recessive gene that is being exploited is a gene that makes these Dempseys 25-50% less virile than reg. jack's. We can determine this by the survival rate of BG jacks and EBJD's.

These fish aren't as strong and that's why we don't see them reproducing.
I belive rapps has a wild caught EBJD as well.
These jacks have been around for years, breeders culled the blues becuae they weren't as strong.


P.S. READ Ormed's post on cichlid-forum.

 

[xEchOx]

As far as I know, Its unheard of. A pair of Electric blues cannot breed, because the eggs are always sterile, or for some unknown reason they just do not hatch. There was a long post about this entire topic on www.cichlid-forum.com Ormed bred his Male Electric blue to a regular female jack dempsey. male=bb female =BB bb x BB = Bb Bb Bb Bb. All of these fry now carry the Electric blue trait. So he grows out the fry and takes a strong female and breeds it back to the father. male bb, female Bb bb x Bb = Bb Bb bb bb. He is yielding 50% fry that carry the gene, and 50% that are electric blues. Thus far he has sold some of his first batch to some of us cichlid forum members, and now has another breeding pair of consisting of a Male Electric blue, and a female regular jd, that obviously, carries the electric blue gene.

 

[xEchOx]

P.S. READ Ormed's post on cichlid-forum.

Cichlid-forum, ORMED

 

[lemcc]

this may fly in high school but not here

Genetics, blah. Well each DNA strand is made up of two strands of gene codes, one from each parent. The result is a mix of DNA from each parent cell. One of the genes from each parent will be dominant, the other recessive. The recessive gene will not be expressed physically, but be 'carried'. The dominant, of course, will be expressed. (In reality, its not this simple, there are things such as 'co-dominance', and etc., etc. but we won't get into that.)

so i get one strand of DNA from each parent????

for example brown eyes, and blue eyes. It is a known fact that Brown is the dominant gene color. Can two parents with brown eyes have a child with blue eyes? Yes. As long as both parents carry the recessive gene for blue eyes. So lets go to Punnet Squares. Bstands for brown, and b stands for blue. Bb x Bb = BB, Bb, Bb, bb. What the *&#$ does that mean? Well, BB= Brown eyes-this child carries only genes for brown eyes, and has brown eyes. Bb=Brown eyes-this child carries genes for brown eyes and blue eyes, but brown is the dominant color. bb= blue eyes-this child has the only combination of genes that would allow two parents with brown eyes to have a child with blue eyes.

this is a common example for inheritance patterns but its wrong eyecolor is a polygenic trait.

hard to say how rare blue dempsey are few people breed regular dempsey
not enough $$$
and i have heard that blue dempseys are not as robust as regular JD's
this could be because they (blues) are all from one line
only JD's i rasied ended up has feeders

 

[xEchOx]

this may fly in high school but not here



so i get one strand of DNA from each parent????



this is a common example for inheritance patterns but its wrong eyecolor is a polygenic trait.

Yea, you're right, but like I said, lets keep it simple. And no, not just one strand of DNA from each parent.

 

[stotty]

The simple answer


Two blues bred together will not produce a full blue offspring. To achieve full blue offspring, you must first start with a blue male and breed him with a regular color female Jack Dempsey. The offspring that this pair creates will appear as regular Jack Dempseys, but the difference is that they will carry the blue gene. This group of fish must now be grown out to the size where a female can be determined and selected and bred back to the original blue male. The offspring of this pairing will produce an indeterminant number of true blue variant fish. Obviously a project like this is not for the faint of heart and will require enormous growout type of facilities.

 

[fsc46]

Thanks for the write up on how to breed EBJ's. I'm still not convinced that they are a pure breed fish. I still think they are a hybrid fish that someone created in their fish tank. I am wrong then chances are some body in the US, UK, Spain had two Jack's that breed and produce EBJ's. It seems to me that the only people that have the ones with the blue gene, are the ones that can make money from it (ie. know which ones to cross breed) and know how it's done. I need to look up more info on why/when females lay sterile eggs. Look up the Parot cichlid, half red devil, half severum. Same story also, Parot's can't breed with each other. I hope to find someone with 2 regular jack's with the blue gene.