"Essay" on Drop Eye (from a physician/biologist)

[msjinkzd]

What an excellent offer. This thread is very compelling. i look forward to seeing where it goes

 

[jcardona1]

WOW! I'm impressed. How on earth did you sedate and perform minor surgery on your fish?! Seriously. What did you use for sedation? I'm intrigued.

clove oil, works wonders

and its interesting, somebody also mentioned the yellowish fluid that i saw as soon as i pierced the bubble....

 

[aro-lover]

Hi,

That's one beautifully written first post of this thread.
I guess you missed one myth of arowana constantly looking at its own reflection of a bare-bottom tank and getting DE?

Well I'm very curious either to know what actually cause DE.
I have kept 3 types of arowana so far. With my limited knowledge observation:

Silver swims totally along the surface almost kissing water-level all the time. Its barbels are always with water-level.
Asians swims just few mm/cm below the water-level.
Jars swim top-middle level of the tank. Some are even middle and middle-bottom swimmers.

Does their most-preferred area of swimming influence vulnerability to DE?
Sorry if this sounds too stupid but just anxious.

 

[jcardona1]

^ i wouldnt say "always" swims at the top. i have a tank thats 3ft tall and my silver spends his time swimming throughout the entire tank, not just top

 

[Bderick67]

If trauma is the cause of DE, the what would be the reason od DE in Silver and Asian aros that are keep in ponds? They surely won't get a trauma when it hit hard on the soil as it's not as hard as the glass. Their is not much difference of skull structure of silver and black aros so the impact would still be the same and why black aros seldom have DE? Also I already said this before, but most aros that keep bashing it's head have bump/lump or damage barbels, and mine have no signs of those injury but still have a DE.

There is not much difference between blacks and silvers but you do acknowledge there is a difference. With the pond kept arows, I have not found any documented cases of silver aros raised in a pond with DE, the few with DE that are kept in ponds were tank raised and had the DE before being placed in the pond.

Have you ever seen an aro develop DE almost instantly? Meaning on day it was not there the next day it was. Myself and many others have, there has to be an explanation for this. With mine it developed very near after severe head trauma.

 

[Austin]

I agree with brian about trauma. i had a wild caught silver that was perfect until one day he jumped into the lid, hard. DE was there almost immediately. i don't know what about the bashing causes it but i literally saw it happen. my big guy (29") only has it in one eye and he has been through some ****. i would almost be interested in sedating him and trying what j did just to see. bum for a logical, calm discussion of the subject

 

[Bderick67]

There have been numerous people that have reported the same or support the "Head Banging" opinion. There have been numerous others to report that the DE appeared or worsened almost instantly. Here are a few examples quoted from previous post of mine http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2881693&postcount=45

Originally Posted by johnptc
imo which is not scientific at this point i believe it to be caused by one of two reasons.......

1) fatty tissue buildup behind the eye...pushing it out
2) physical shock/injury to the head........

john

Originally Posted by likestofish
my silver got de within a day of hitting the lid of his tank rely hard.

Originally Posted by DustMite
I think it's from putting a monkey fish used to jumping in the wild in a aquarium.I have seen 5 out of 8 Arowanas I have raised in the past smash my lids and instantly have DE. I may be wrong but I have a 20'' that has no drop eye but she is the most calm aro I have owned and has never hit my lids that I know of.

Originally Posted by TwoBrownDogs
I just got back from a long weekend to find both of my Arows have there left eye like this? They have had eye drop but this looks like there eye is going to fall out. They will not eat and are ackting like they are going crazy. Please help if you can..

Originally Posted by jphillips2020
Yeah I pretty much agree mine had no drop eye then one day hit the lid really hard and ended up on the floor somehow probably HOB filter hole. Found him mostly dry and laying on his left side he has had drop eye on his left side ever since.

Originally Posted by demjor19
Mine had no DE up until it was about 15"...then it had a few bad jumps into the hood and the DE showed up on the injured side of the head within a day. I have always suspected DE to come from head trauma.

Also...mine has not had another bad head injury since and the DE has remained stable (no worse/better).

Just my $0.02.

Originally Posted by Cypher
The theory of genetics makes more sense to me, as it explains why Asians and Black arowanas seem less prone to DE than silvers.

However Ive had a situation where ive moved my silver (8") from a 75 to a 180 gallon. He became very restless in the bucket during acclimation, bumping into every part of the bucket. By the time i moved him into the 180, the right eye was slightly dropped. Possibly due to head trauma?

So I guess both theories have their own validity.

Originally Posted by iLoveHebe
my uncles HBRTG jumped out when it was 10 inch it banged its eye like 5 times by jumping on the floor 1 side had DE

Originally Posted by christ4paul
when i got my silver aro it was bumping into the tank and going ape sh*t and after a few hours one of his eyes dropped so im with you on the head trauma thing.

Originally Posted by headbanger_jib
my jar has been living in a 180g for almost an year, since he was just 6"+
he got drop eye while he was just 8.5" he had this tendency to bang at the tank walls
used to scare me a lot as i could hear the thud from quite a distance
and one fine day he got DE but he still is a cool fish

Originally Posted by ettfettbranamn
Right this is the deal. I got three aros, and all have de, (on the left side) so I know what de looks like, but I came home today and noticed that my smallest aro 17"ish has a lot more de than she used to have just yesterday.

and one more.

Most likely coincidence I know but every time Ive had a silver get drop eye it has started to develop it within a week or two after severely bumping its head on the top.

 

[Scylla]

So the cases for trauma related DE seem awfully compelling. It's a great theory. I'd love to help us prove it correct.

So to elaborate on the trauma. This question is probably impossible to answer, but has anyone noticed what part of your aro typically strikes your canopy? I realize this is like trying to describe a lightning strike, but has anyone been lucky enough to have accurately witnessed (or better yet, filmed) this?

One caveat for us all: if this turns out to indeed be trauma related, I will feel truly sad. The reason is, if true, no matter how you want to look at it, drop eye suddenly becomes a preventable injury that is entirely our fault.

 

[Lissaspence]

Um...I don't know too much about aros but why can't it be a combination of things that is causeing this. Maybe the head trauma triggers something that the silvers are more genetically prone to. Immune disorders can be triggered by trauma....
Also just because one has head trauma and doesn't develop DE doesn't mean that DE isn't caused by trauma. If two people close their fingers in a door it's possible that one could break their finger and the other doesn't.

 

[jcardona1]

Um...I don't know too much about aros but why can't it be a combination of things that is causeing this. Maybe the head trauma triggers something that the silvers are more genetically prone to. Immune disorders can be triggered by trauma....
Also just because one has head trauma and doesn't develop DE doesn't mean that DE isn't caused by trauma. If two people close their fingers in a door it's possible that one could break their finger and the other doesn't.

yeah it most certainly can! that is why this is such a huge controversy. nobody knows and its impossible to know what causes it. all we have is personaly experience to make an educated guess