Fahaka Puffer with Rays?

[DavidW]

The point of water changes is not just to remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrates etc but also all those other dissolved organics that you don't test for and can't see, such as bacteria count in the water column.
Keeping Discus is the very best experience/discipline for keeping rays healthy. They have the exact same water requirements.
It is a myth that too much water change is damaging. Like you can not have too much filtration, neither can you change too much water. The more you change the healthier your fish will be. Sure, you can get away with less, but the less you change the greater your chance of a problem. 30%+ at least 3X per week. I changed about 50% per day in my pools, perhaps that is why all my rays were breeding? henlii, otorongo, leos and even Tigers.
Worry less about the health of the fish and more about the health of the water and you cannot go wrong.

Oh...and NO puffers with rays.

 

[Just Toby]

The point of water changes is not just to remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrates etc but also all those other dissolved organics that you don't test for and can't see, such as bacteria count in the water column.
Keeping Discus is the very best experience/discipline for keeping rays healthy. They have the exact same water requirements.
It is a myth that too much water change is damaging. Like you can not have too much filtration, neither can you change too much water. The more you change the healthier your fish will be. Sure, you can get away with less, but the less you change the greater your chance of a problem. 30%+ at least 3X per week. I changed about 50% per day in my pools, perhaps that is why all my rays were breeding? henlii, otorongo, leos and even Tigers.
Worry less about the health of the fish and more about the health of the water and you cannot go wrong.

Oh...and NO puffers with rays.

Do not get me wrong, I totally agree with water changes and I know that wc do more than just the nitrogen baddies I just feel that 90% is excessive. If you really feel you need to do that much then 3x 30 is better IMO.

I now have a vision of discuss flipping around in the bottom of a tank with hardly any water left.

Less than 50% will maintain the water quality just fine.

I ran some lfs for many years and always tried to preach water keeping and not fish keeping.

My system actually does 2 automated changes of 50 gals each time with a dosing pump for dechlor in to the fresh reservoir as my tank is plumbed for fresh water and drain. I then do a 100+ gal change every weekend when I vac the the sand.

 

[Pufferpunk]

My nitrates stay below 40-50ppm based on less than 40% weekly changes and I feed twice per day.

If discus & rays need pristine water, then how is 30-40% nitrate acceptable?

I just feel that 90% is excessive. If you really feel you need to do that much then 3x 30 is better IMO.

3 x 30% WC do not equal 90%.

 

[DavidW]

If discus & rays need pristine water, then how is 30-40% nitrate acceptable?

3 x 30% WC do not equal 90%.

30-40 nitrate is NOT acceptable imo. change water change water....

3x30% is the minimum weekly water change I would recommend.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Interesting WC articles by my mentor, Robert T Ricketts:
Water Changes: Why, How Much, and How Often?
Water Change Math

 

[DavidW]

" from that link, like I said........>>>>>We do not measure the dissolved organic compounds (DOC), rarely the rest of the mineral profile of the water, the suspended bacteria or algae. Sometime we will re-visit DOC for a good horror story. It includes anti-metabolites, toxins, colorants, and many other unseen undesirables."<<<<<

 

[Just Toby]

Well the debate goes on.....

My nitrate is more often than not in the 10-25 range, I hope to maintain zero now that my watercress refugium is up and running.

You will normally find my posts arguing with people that think 100-500 ppm of nitrate is acceptable and I argue that we should be below 50.

I do not think we are getting anywhere so I will respect your opinions and leave it there.

 

[lungfishlover]

WTF???? this thread was supposed to be about keeping fahakas with rays??????????????????

 

[Tor-Eriik]

hehheehe lungfishlover, you wrote what ive bin thinking for about 2 pages

 

[Pufferpunk]

That Q was answered in the 1st response. The thread got hijacked to something more debatable.