Fastest cycled tank EVER?!?!?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I was thinking about this the other day. I believe, no matter if you have a higher or lower bio load, you will get a spike unless the bioload is the same or close to the same. Here is why, and please correct me if my theory is wrong.

Less Bioload (no fish in new tank):
You put substrate and deco and use the same filter into a tank withno fish. There is a ton of bacteria in there, but not enough bioload for it to feed off of. No food for the bacteria will mean there will be a dieoff of bacteria causing an amonia spike.

Large Bioload (More fish in new tank compared to tank you got the deco and substrate from):
If there is a large amount of fish in the tank that you are setting up, there may be more load than the bacteria can handle. The ammonia will go up before more bacteria is produced to bring it back down.

If the bioload is the same or close to the same as the tank you got the seeded stuff from, then there shouldnt be much bacteria dieoff and there should be enough bacteria to feed off what is being produced already by the fish.

Does this sound right? Again, I was just sitting there at my desk as I was setting up another tank with pieces from an established tank and this is what I came up with.
 
your thoughts on the larger bioload make sense to me BUT i kinda question whether a smaller bioload with dead bacteria would cause an increase or spike?

anybody know???
 
Your method of cloning an existing tank is pretty much how i bring up a new tank. I also use bio spira. I used to use stresszyme but got a bacteria bloom when i brought up my 90gal. I have had no problems with my tanks using this method no spike regardless of bioload (larger or smaller). IMHO this is a great way to a fast start or bringing up a tank in an emergency (the first time i had to do it). Just my 02.
 
Gr8KarmaSF said:
your thoughts on the larger bioload make sense to me BUT i kinda question whether a smaller bioload with dead bacteria would cause an increase or spike?

anybody know???
Click to expand...

Here is a quote from an article on nano-reef.com

When a new aquarium system is created, these bacterial colonies are not immediately present. They will be introduced into your system when your liverock is added and will grow within the porous rock. The process that triggers the cycle into starting is kind of like a reverse process. There will be denitrifying bacteria present on the rock that you add, but there will be no waste available to feed them. As the bacteria and other life dies off on the rock, ammonia will be created. This new ammonia feeds the remaining bacteria, which will then start the cycle process. Other methods may be used to start the process sooner, such as adding a small piece of uncooked shrimp, that will decay into ammonia.
Click to expand...

Im sure its almost the same for freshwater.

This article is what got me thinking about speeding up a cycle process. I was then thinking that wouldnt it be faster if you put your seeded rocks, substrate and filter in a new stocked tank? That way there is something producing waste for the bacteria to feed on. But if your fish are producing more than the bacteria can handle, you will get a small spike as you do when you introduce new fish into any tank.
 
I did it with my 300. I changed 100% of the water (and the tank), used the old fitler, let it run for a few minutes, and threw the old fishes in.
 
When you got your new 300? NICE!! I forgot about that.

The thing is cycling is it is a 3 step process;

Waste to ammonia.

Ammonia to Nitrite.

Nitrite to Nitrate.

I know we all know that. ;)

In a brand new tank that has had a 100% water change, we can assume the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are close to or at 0.

If we put in rocks and the filter and gravel from a mature tank, we can also assume there is waste in the gravel still producing ammonia unless you cleaned the gravel before putting it into the new tank. It would be best to probably not rinse off the gravel and keep some waste in there to keep from breaking the cycle.

If you did clean out the gravel or have a bare bottom tank, you have to rely on the waste produce by the fish to first convert into ammonia. Meanwhile, the bacteria that feeds on the ammonia and nitrites are being starved.

Once the waste does produces ammonia, the dying bacteria also produces ammonia. That is where the spike comes in.

I guess the key is to have ammonia in the tank for the bacteria that is already in the substrate, rocks and filter to feed on rather than waiting for waste to produce it. Instead of breaking the cycle by cutting off the supply of food to the bacteria, have it in there already so that the cycle can continue seamlessly.

Again, I am no pro and really know nothing about this subject, but I am interested in learning more about it. I also am ready to admit that I could be wrong on all accounts.

Great thread.
 
Gr8KarmaSF said:
your thoughts on the larger bioload make sense to me BUT i kinda question whether a smaller bioload with dead bacteria would cause an increase or spike?

anybody know???
Click to expand...
It is true but a small ammount of flake food in the filter will tide the bacteria over so that the adjustment period is prolonged and the spike is minimised, the bacteria that die break down feeding the surviving ones.
 
Boy am I glad I opened this thread, as I am plumbing and opening my new 200g this weekend. I can only hope I'm not too late to get some feed-back from this learned group.

I currently have a small oscar (maybe 5") and a tinfoil barb (same size) in an established 55g, and a nice Severum (7") and leporinus (also 7") in a 30g. My plan was to get the tank running for a few days and warming the water, then dropping in the "hardier" severum and oscar. At the same time I'd drop a nylon sock full of gravel from my 30g in with the bio-balls of my new wet/dry, and also take the sponge out of the Aquaclear 500 on the 55g and put that in the sump.

Does that sound like a winning strategy? My concerns are:

1)It's a lot of water, so can the two fish produce the needed waste to build a new bacteria colony?

2)Should I expect a discernible ammonia/nitrite reading, and if so how soon?

3)When would it be safe to add the other two fish?

I'm awfully jacked about getting up and running but definitely want to avoid screwing up. Come to think of it, how long should I let my pvc connections set before testing the set-up?

Your counsel much appreciated!
 
I did it with my 550 gal when I set it up. I the only thing new was the glass and it turned over in a couple days. I would suggest adding your fish over a few days to let the bio load balance. I would also use cycle or a bio booster just as an insurance policy to help if there is an amonia increase.
Good Luck.
 
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