Festae- Quality VS Trash!!

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bobblehead27 said:
If it is actually a bite, or cut, than it's not the genetics and therefore should be fine... If it was born like that, than yeah, don't breed him...

I'm bringing another thought to the table (at least I think it's new, I don't think people mentioned it yet) People were talking about how the aesthetic appeal doesn't have anything to do with the quality, but I know many animals base part of their mating selection on the most colorful candidate, and also the brighter the color, the more likely the opposite sex can find them in murky waters and what not, making the bright colors an adaptation, because it helps them pass their genes on to the next generation, which is all that matters in the animal world. Everything that has ever been adapted is to help them reproduce... This is why many animals have actually developed adaptations that hinder their survival rate but increase their chances of mating...

The only reason they form adaptations to survive, is because they need to survive to reproduce... I know I worded all that weird, but I hope it was comprehensible...
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its been cleared up . its was caused by the parents at birth. they were buried in gravel witch caused the indent im guessing from being hit by the gravel on its back . so it is not a genetic deformity. and yes that is a good point especially in the fish world cause that is how they choose potential mates.
 
Much of this discussion is quite speculative, no?

A few years back I bought wild Ecuadorean festae from Rapps and recieved 1 with a spinal deformity. I've seen and heard of others like this as well. I think this is an issue within the species as a whole rather than the result of inbreeding/ line breeding or f#, but who knows?
I would be curious to know what the water quality is like where these 'wild' fish are being collected.Pollution is a problem in many areas of South America, much as it is here, and fish pulled from polluted areas are probably more prone to health issues upon entering the aquarium.
I know that oil, heavy metals and other contaminants are a big problem in Ecuador but whether or not this affects any populations of festae, Idk. Something worth looking into.
As for line breeding festae, I'd say they're in a class of their own: late bloomers, tricky to sex, reluctant to spawn, unpredicable aggression, drastic color changes.... A daunting task compared to some other species.



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It's so sad but Texaco, Chevron and Exxon may very well be responsible for the trash festae in the hobby.


" POLLUTION

The decline of available water resources is made more serious by pollution in the countries' rivers, caused by mining activities and oil companies. Heavy metals and chemicals are contaminating both river and underground resources, according to Jeroen Voes, one of the author's of the study.

Another source of pollution is untreated sewage. In Bolivia and Peru, only 20% of sewage receives treatment, while in Ecuador the figure drops to 10%, according to the study.

More than half of the bigger rivers in these three countries are severely contaminated and some of them have stretches that are biologically dead, such as in the rivers Mantaro, Ene, Corrientes, Huaytará, Napo, Ramis, Rímac and Chira in Peru.

The study also cited Bolivia's Pilcomayo and Rocha rivers, and the Machángara, Guallabamba, Esmeraldas and Guayas rivers in Ecuador."
http://www.bnamericas.com/news/wate..._critical_problems_of_water_supply,_pollution

Another good article:

http://www.sosyasuni.org/en/index.p...on-the-planet&option=com_content&view=article



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It's so sad but Texaco, Chevron and Exxon may very well be responsible for the trash festae in the hobby.
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While pollution definitely increases the risk of cancer, tumors, etc - it does not account for the deformaties seen in future generations, such as hooked mouths/sloped faces that I have seen in some offspring of F0 & F1. As has been previously mentioned, IMO most of the lower quality fish (pick a species) that one sees in this hobby is due to sloppy breeding, and little to no culling of juvies that should never make it mainstream. The more popular a species becomes, the more you generally see these types of things surfacing.

There is hardly a body of natural water left in the world that isn't polluted by human industry and waste.

As an example .....

Cleaning Up ‘World’s Biggest Toilet’

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46120

The wastewater from 60 chemical companies and Managua’s 1.2 million people has been dumped untreated into the lake from 17 drains since 1927, when the government ordered all sewage to be channeled into the lake until a new sewer system was built.
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........... which only took them until 2007.


http://www.gaianicaragua.org/fish/Mercuryfishlakesnicaragua.pdf

A chlorine-alkali factory on the western edge of Managua released approximately 40,000 kg of mercury into Lake Managua during the 1960s and 1970s (Hassan et al., 1981;
Lacayo et al., 1991). At least two gold-mining amalgamation mills continue to dump untreated mill residues directly into rivers (Rosario and Ault, 1997; Arengi and Hodgson, 2000).
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In Lake Masaya the water quality has become so poor from raw sewage and agricultural runoff over the years that researchers will no longer even dive in this lake due to health concerns. I recall seeing a photo taken along the shoreline of Lake Apoyo (one of the crater lakes designated a nature reserve) where the garbage & human debris was worse than along the shoreline of the Detroit River back in the 1970's.

While this may all be rather disgusting on a personal level, I don't believe that pollution plays a major role in the lower quality festae that one might run across in the hobby.
 
Good read guys:) I'm not so sure that the deformities are a direct result of pollution, although pollution may contribute to some of them. Imo its probably no different than any living species. Some deformities are genetic others may happen after birth. I don't see anyone being able to stop them from being born, but once they become noticeable we as breeders, distributors, vendors, and even hobbiests can control the amount being spread into the hobby. Nobody is perfect and it can be difficult to spot them at small sizes, as I have missed some myself.


BTW Ed, that pair looks amazing!! I wish I could have saved one for my projects. I recently found one and purchased him. But when I got him he looked funny.. almost stunted and swam in circles and barrel rolls lol. I'm 100% sure he wasn't like this when I sold him at 3" now he's 7" so what ever happened to him was a result of the previous owner. This is the first time I've actually seen a stunted fish in person.
 
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