my friend and i were talking about making a FW refugium for his 110 gallon tank. when he went to this LFS and was giving our ideas the guy said it might be more trouble than its worth. but we were talking about the plants and all in his sump and how that could possibly be as effective as a SW refugium. would love to see/hear some insight on that whenever you get your project in the works
filter media
- Thread starter mymindseye81
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MyMindsEye, If you could give us a step by step of your sump/media arrangement that would help us make suggestions or points that could help you tweak your filtration
and remember a picture is worth a thousand words 
When the water first enters the sump its good to have it go through some form of mechanical filtration pad prior to emptying into the bio media. This is just to remove the big particles of waste/debris. Naturally this pad should be cleaned often. Any waste that is allowed to mix in with your bio media will simply further break down feeding your nitrate build up a certain amount will also fail to fully break down and will simply become sludge which will gum up your bio media.
As water passes through your different chambers, minimizing bypass is essential. By bypass I mean any water that is allowed to flow around your media instead of through it. Using sponges that are slightly oversized for a hole can make a big difference.
If you are finding too many tiny particles, consider using smaller media. Ive found it most effective to step media size down meaning push water through a sponges with large holes first, small holes second and tiny holes last
Ive seen quite a few sumps set up with 2 cubic feet of bio media. I simply do not believe that a typical set up is benefited by this massive amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on. Many will disagree and although I welcome that friendly debate, your thread is not the place to have it. If one were to choose not to dedicate that space to bio media, they could instead fill it with plants and put a small light on it and they have a refugium.
I have not put this theory to the test and therefore cannot speak of its effectiveness from experience, but since we know plants eat ammonia/nitrite/nitrate if we can find a plant with simple needs (of which there are many, as to which one or ones would work best Im not sure) the only investment is the plants themselves, the small light and the power it takes to illuminate that light
I can speak from experience that Ive used plants in tanks to reduce nitrates and they work I can speak from experience that there are plants with low light requirements that can thrive as long as my stinking fish cant get to them Add these two together and you have a freshwater refugium.
When the water first enters the sump its good to have it go through some form of mechanical filtration pad prior to emptying into the bio media. This is just to remove the big particles of waste/debris. Naturally this pad should be cleaned often. Any waste that is allowed to mix in with your bio media will simply further break down feeding your nitrate build up a certain amount will also fail to fully break down and will simply become sludge which will gum up your bio media.
As water passes through your different chambers, minimizing bypass is essential. By bypass I mean any water that is allowed to flow around your media instead of through it. Using sponges that are slightly oversized for a hole can make a big difference.
If you are finding too many tiny particles, consider using smaller media. Ive found it most effective to step media size down meaning push water through a sponges with large holes first, small holes second and tiny holes last
Ive seen quite a few sumps set up with 2 cubic feet of bio media. I simply do not believe that a typical set up is benefited by this massive amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on. Many will disagree and although I welcome that friendly debate, your thread is not the place to have it. If one were to choose not to dedicate that space to bio media, they could instead fill it with plants and put a small light on it and they have a refugium.
I have not put this theory to the test and therefore cannot speak of its effectiveness from experience, but since we know plants eat ammonia/nitrite/nitrate if we can find a plant with simple needs (of which there are many, as to which one or ones would work best Im not sure) the only investment is the plants themselves, the small light and the power it takes to illuminate that light
I can speak from experience that Ive used plants in tanks to reduce nitrates and they work I can speak from experience that there are plants with low light requirements that can thrive as long as my stinking fish cant get to them Add these two together and you have a freshwater refugium.
i may have to talk to my friend about this. he is one though to neglect water changes for a while, mix fish that probably shouldnt be mixed together regardless of how many times i have told him to research, see how big they get, who their compatable tankmates are, etc etc etc. but he just goes on his own and picks up a fish he likes and thinks might work as long as its not an extremely mean fish that will tear anything up it sees. he likes the trial and error it seems with mixing and matching fish. i did a water change two weeks ago, and did another one this past weekend and he was asking why i was doing one again. now granted with my old 20 gallon probably like 5 or 6 years ago i never did water changes, just replaced evaporated water once it got down to a certain level and for some reason my water stayed clear and nothing ever died. so he kind of learned from that but hes a hard headed person and as long as something doesnt go wrong in his tank he leaves it alone. im sure if i listed his stock of that tank it probably wouldnt sit too well with some people. i am a religious water changer now though and am trying to show him the same but not working that well. so maybe i can help him incorporate a FW refugium in his sump with plants with low requirements of light and feeding. sometimes it seems like i care more about his tank than he does and the quality of his water. or maybe if i just try not to help with anything in his tank since he doesnt want to help himself it might make him care more about his tank if his fish start dying, hate to let that happen though 
the water is first taken into a CPR overflow were it is then sucked through a small foam media, then gravity takes the water into the sump, in this first chamber i have a air pump that pumps oxygen into the water, this water is then passed over into the 2nd chamber were there is a plastic plate with small holes resting on op of a 8" x10" foam pad, then it trickles dow into the bio balls, then the water is rushed into the 3rd chambe were the return pump is. the pump pushes about 700 GPH. just like you said i need more filter media, big, medium, and then small pads. i think this will work. im just some what scepticul that the water will not pass through fast enough and an over flow will happen. is this possible? is there anyway to regulate this, other than the obvious (less pad). also any ideas as to were to place this extra padding. im thinking since the bio balls float it might be better to put them under the bio balls. ???nc_nutcase;3376106; said:
MyMindsEye I have a 4 foot sump (48"x12"x18") under my 6ftx2ftx2ft tank it is split into three chambers. 1 small settlement chamber where water enters from the 2 'dursos' in the tank, in the next chamber I have 150 plastic ladies hair rollers which provide mechanical and biolgical filtration, then in the other chamber I have 200 1/2" plastic pipe bushes(bankrupt stock from a plumbing supply closure) which also provide biological filtration with a little mechanical for good measure, also in this chamber i have net bags of lava rock from my local department store BBQ dept clearance sale . Again biological filtration at a fraction of the cost in my LFS. Heating and aeration is also in the sump as is my return pump an Ehiem 1250. All my levels OK and I just had rams spawn a week after I bought them so I must be doing something right! I think you should look around at sumps on the site and work out what you think would suit you. There are no rules written in stone and who knows you could come up with something different which works.
this is all very interesting. theres almost no true road to take when useing sump filtration as long as you have the key components in play. i know what i must do now and that is buy more filter media. thank you all for interest and input.K.Galvin;3376392; said:
So it sounds like you have your mechanical filtration first… then your bio…
The water goes through a prefilter before it ever enters the sump… that’s good… just be sure to clean/rinse this prefilter often.
As previously mentioned, look for anywhere bypass is possible…
Having your filter pads get progressively finer will help…
Yes this can cause overflow though… but that is why all of the walls within the sump are supposed to be lower than the top of the sump… So chamber one may be designed to flow down into chamber two… but if chamber one overflows it will bypass the media and flow over the wall into chamber two but not overflow the sump itself…
Here is an example of a sump with lower interior walls than perimeter walls… http://www.danoreef.com/images/sump-refugium300.jpg
Last idea… do you have any media/pads between your bio balls and your return pump? If not then your bio balls will likely allow small particles to continually break off and be pushed into your tank above.
The water goes through a prefilter before it ever enters the sump… that’s good… just be sure to clean/rinse this prefilter often.
As previously mentioned, look for anywhere bypass is possible…
Having your filter pads get progressively finer will help…
Yes this can cause overflow though… but that is why all of the walls within the sump are supposed to be lower than the top of the sump… So chamber one may be designed to flow down into chamber two… but if chamber one overflows it will bypass the media and flow over the wall into chamber two but not overflow the sump itself…
Here is an example of a sump with lower interior walls than perimeter walls… http://www.danoreef.com/images/sump-refugium300.jpg
Last idea… do you have any media/pads between your bio balls and your return pump? If not then your bio balls will likely allow small particles to continually break off and be pushed into your tank above.
