Filtration help..

[Redeyepacu]

Hello .. I need help .. .I have a 300 gal fresh water tank that I that needs additional filtration. My fish are pretty dirty. I currenlty have 2 Rena Filstar XP3 canisters. Rena has come out with a XP4 but I didnt know if anything was better. I thought about a Ocean Clear 375 w/ UV or Eheim Pro 3 or Eheim 2260 canister. My fish are below ... Thanks :
1) Med Pacu
1) Large channel cat
1) Large shovel nose cat
1) Baby red tail cat
1) Large Clown Knife
2) Med Kio
2) Oscars
1) Jack Dempesy
2) med pleco

 

[Bderick67]

When you say more filtration are you looking to increase your biological or mechanical filtration?

Either way, I would build a large "do it yourself" wet/dry sump and set up the 2 canisters as mechanical only.

 

[pacu mom]

The MINIMUM filtration rate for canister filters is 4x the tank size. For a 300 gallon tank, the minimum filtration rate using canister filters is 1200 gph. Right now, you have enough filtration for a moderately stocked 175 gallon tank. For any large tank, a wet dry filter should be considered for biological filtration. I concur with Bderick67, either build or buy a large wet dry filter, and have, canister filtration totalling 1200 gph at the very least. Wet dry filters are fairly spendy, but are a simple DIY build.

Your 300 gallon tank is overstocked as is our 300 gallon tank. We have two 20" pacu, two large oscars and two 12"+ pleco. For biological filtration we have a 400 gallon capacity Pro Clear Wet/dry filter running with a CA-6000 pump (1560 gp). For mechanical filtration we use two spa filters fed by a Reef Flow Hammerhead pump (5800 gph), which is CONSIDERABLY more than the 1200 gph minimum. For redundant backup filtration, we are running a Fluval FX5 (925 gph) with a large 40 Watt UV sterilizer connected to it. From the very first day we have had excellent water parameters, i.e., ammonia 0; nitrite 0; and with once a week water changes, we keep the nitrate < 20 ppm. We have incredible, extreme mechanical filtration that quickly removes feces and debris from the tank. In the year that the tank has been running, there has been nothing to vacuum out of the tank. We chose to go without substrate for minimal maintenance. I am convinced that quickly removing debris and feces from the tank is what keeps our nitrates manageable.

In theory, you could add something like an FX5, which would get your flow rate over 1200 gph. However, your tank is overstocked, and that changes everything. I think at the very least, you should add a large wet dry filter and another big canister, like an FX5. (I say FX5, only because I don't know of another canister with a bigger flow rate) Keep in mind that even with tons of filtration, you can only get rid of nitrates (the end product of the nitrogen cycle) by doing water changes. (Unless you also have a denitrator.) At your stocking level, I think you will be doing multiple large water changes every week to keep your nitrates below 20 ppm.

What are your current water parameters? Ammonia and nitrite readings should always be 0. How much and how often you change water is determined by the nitrate level. You need a freshwater master test kit, and you need to routinely test the water. Here's the form I made up to record test results and how much water is changed out. If the nitrates were higher than 20 ppm, I usually retest the water after water changes.

The best way to purchase a freshwater master test kit is to go to Petsmart website and print out the freshwater master test kit info. If you take the printout in to the store, they will honor their online pricing of $13.49 versus their instore pricing of almost $30. http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp

 

[Redeyepacu]

When you say more filtration are you looking to increase your biological or mechanical filtration?

Either way, I would build a large "do it yourself" wet/dry sump and set up the 2 canisters as mechanical only.

Thank you both your comments are very helpful.. How large of a wet dry should I be looking for? Due to the size of my fish right now and they are still growing should I be thinking about building a larger tank?

Pacu Mom - Your filtration is very impressive. I do have a fresh water test kit but my reading are extremely high.. So I do more water changes but with very little change. The two filters I currently have are being over worked. Every time I vacuum the gravel there is so much feces and debris still in the tank I wonder if I&#8217;m doing any good. Its all in the substrate rocks. I&#8217;m thinking about removing it to help with the maintenance. I will start with making a number of water changes. My Oscars have whole in the head real bad I was told due to my readings being so high. What type of spa filters do you have connected to Reef flow pump?

I have a lot of work to do but now I know how to proceed. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[pacu mom]

HITH disease is directly related to high nitrate levels and poor water quality. We know all about spending hours every day vacuuming out feces and changing water. We even lost an oscar to HITH disease. A year and a half ago, my husband rescued eight large fish stuffed in a small 55 gallon tank. Once we learned about the nitrogen cycle, we were changing out the equivalent of 100% of the water everyday, just to get all the feces vacuumed out. When tank maintenance is that labor intensive, it is extremely burdensome. My husband vowed to set up the 300 gallon tank as maintenance-free as possible. He succeeded beyond my wildest expectation. I have just gone through just about every aspect of our filtration system in this thread on another forum. The person was asking about filtration for his 300 gallon tank that he is building. Look for my multiple posts on the very innovative plumbing we have on our tank system. For all the filtration we have, we still change out 200 to 400 gallons a week just to keep nitrates super low. At least water changes for us is very easy to do and requires just turning valves on and off.
http://www.oscarfish.com/300-gal-tank-filtration--vt65711.html?sid=d12d928fef99f8c13b8191fcad957027

If with additional filtration, you are still unable to maintain excellent water parameters, you should consider rehoming some of your fish to lessen the overall bioload of the tank. Shortened life span, failure to thrive, stunting and disease are some of the fallout to poor water quality. Since rehoming is not an option for us, we will build a bigger home for our fish, should they outgrow their tank, or the nitrate levels be hard to keep low.

 

[Redeyepacu]

Thank you Pacu Mom ... You have been great .. You have increased my knowledge 100 %. I didn&#8217;t know water parameters were so important. I have lost a lot of fish but I thought it was due to something else or just there time. I&#8217;m currently making plans to increase my mechanical filtration to as much over 1200 gph as possible. Along with adding biological filtration such as a large sump. I do like the idea of adding a UV also to improve the water quality. You have been a great help to me and I hope to have some pictures soon of my success with the additional filtration. Thank you again

 

[pacu mom]

We added the UV sterilizer because we had a green water problem. With floor to ceiling picture windows and two large sky lights, our tank is in sunlight all day long. The UV sterilizer took care of the green water problem. It can help with other micro organisms, but it in no way helps with the nitrogen cycle. The beneficial bacteria in your biological filtration will take care of the ammonia and subsequent nitrite, and water changes will remove nitrate, the end product of the nitrogen cycle. When we have trouble maintaining excellent water parameters, we can do three things: more frequent, larger water changes, rehome some fish to reduce the overall bioload, and/or go with a bigger tank with more water to dilute the bioload.

I hope you at least have a Python system to help you with water changes. If you have questions, PM me, and I'll try to steer you in the right direction

 

[Redeyepacu]

Pacu Mom, Thanks for clearing up the reason why you have a UV. Dont have green water problem but I have my tank as a room divider. It is exposed to sun light in the Morning till noon. I will keep the UV option if this problem starts. I now understand what can be done to maintain execllent water parameters. 1 More frequent water changes, 2) move some of the fish to other homes to decrease the bio load, 3) A bigger tank to dilute the bioload. I removed 75lbs of 175 lbs substrate today and did a couple of water changes and have notice a big difference in the activity of my fish. Looks like I'm on the right road. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[vfc]

Pacu Mom,
How often do you clean the filter media in your large filters? You made the statement that you got tired off the daily vacuuming of feces to keep the nitrates under control. However, if the feces sit in the filter for any length of time, you haven't solve the nitrate problem, you basically hid it from sight and may have may it worse.

I run minimal filtration (by your standard) but rely heavily on the vacuuming during the weekly water changes. I try to remove the waste before it breaks down to ammonia. I have medium sized sand as a substrate at a depth of about 2 -3 inches; perfect combo when I use the two inch diameter vacuuming tube that PetSmart sells. The bacteria in the sand helps with the bio filtration, and as far as solid waste (feces, food, etc), it serves to cover them up (just like the canister filter) until I remove them via the vacuum. My canister filters are there primarily to supplement the bio-filtration of the objects inside the tank.

So the question is: what is more beneficial for the fish and fish keeper.

We all agree that we must change the water to remove nitrates; and most people agree it should be done weeklty. So it comes down to:

1 - Removing most all of the solid waste weekly when vacuuming
or
2 - Do little or no vacuuming and letting the solid waste sit in the filter until we replace/clean the filter media. If you are changing/cleaning your filter monthly or longer, you are adding significant bioload to your tank causing the nitrates to be evening higher than option one.

OK, I am now under my desk; fire away!

 

[pacu mom]

At every water change the filters are backwashed and the water drained outside. Instead of just siphoning the tank and draining the water outside, the tank water is diverted through the filters first and then drained outside. Perhaps the solid wastes in the filter media are adding significant bioload to the tank. The nitrates are easily kept below 20 ppm with weekly water changes, although I prefer to do water changes on two consecutive days to get the nitrate level really low. Perhaps if we replaced the filter media at every water change, we could go two to three weeks between water changes. Somehow, I believe the solid wastes are taken out of the nitrogen equation. For as many large messy fish as we have, the nitrate level should be sky high in one week.

I will do an experiment, though. Today I ordered a filter washer http://www.h2opoolproducts.com/prod...cts_id=1020&osCsid=scdghilqanfqi4pciabtsg5ro2
When it comes, I'll change out the media at every water change. If we can do water changes every two or three weeks, that would be even better!

The fish have been in their tank for a year now, and I have records of the water parameters before each water change, how much water was changed out, and sometimes, post-water change nitrate levels, so I could monitor how fast the nitrates were building up. I'm not sure what your definition of "significant bioload" is. If it means doing water changes once a week to keep nitrates below 20 ppm, then yes, we do have "significant bioload".

I truly believe that if we removed solid waste from the tank weekly by vacuuming it out, i.e., the waste was left to sit in the tank for a week, the nitrates would be through the roof. Apparently, the solid wastes trapped in the filter media are somehow isolated from the overall nitrification process. I do understand your rationale. The more feces the filters retain, the nitrate levels theoretically, should rise. This does not happen. What does happen, is after two or three months, we notice the water clarity changes. Yesterday we noticed some fine particulate matter in the water (not much) and replaced the filter media. The water clears up very fast. The spa filter media is totally different from media in our HOBs and canisters.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong. Last summer we spent 1 1/2 months at the lake. We made the 9 hour round trip home every 7 to 10 days to do water changes. Never once was the nitrate greater than 20 ppm. If you're right, we won't have to do water changes if we stay at the lake only two or three weeks at a time. That would be wonderful.