Final measurements as of recent
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
That's a bowfin. If I counted right. Sun cat is next.
...
Our losses over the past 6-8 months:
Viktor,
You need a custom photo box.
I have a 120cm waterproof plastic tote with length and height measurements marked. For live fish weights, I fill tote with water and tare my platform scales to zero then add fish to obtain approx weight.
In your case, something with your logo displayed on tote bottom showing length and height measurements from a corner would be useful. A simple decal for example. If your crafty, have different fish species photos available (or customable shop/vendor details). I'd buy a redtail catfish one.
You need a custom photo box.
I have a 120cm waterproof plastic tote with length and height measurements marked. For live fish weights, I fill tote with water and tare my platform scales to zero then add fish to obtain approx weight.
In your case, something with your logo displayed on tote bottom showing length and height measurements from a corner would be useful. A simple decal for example. If your crafty, have different fish species photos available (or customable shop/vendor details). I'd buy a redtail catfish one.
Today is 2022. Since 2015, over the past 7 years we lost a lot of fish. If you look over this thread of ours (started in 2017), you’ll get the idea how many and what kinds of fish. We aim to be transparent and learn from the good, bad and the ugly.
Seems like a good time to give account for all those deaths. Here is a concise summary of the learnings and outcomes. There have been identified many reasons, many took years to realize, understand, then correct.
[1] Too soft or too hard water. In 2015-2017 and sporadically afterwards, we had a problem with our water being either too soft (TDS ~100-150 ppm) and not buffered enough (1 degree of carbonate hardness, which means unstable pH). Or in later years sometimes we let the water get too hard, too high TDS (400-600 ppm, half is hardness), when we lost track of testing for TDS and hardness and relied on eyeballing as we make our water from raw well, light brackish water (TDS 1400 ppm, half is hardness, half salinity; some sulfur, tannin, 0.25-0.5 ppm ammonia but potable if it wasn’t for too much hardness and salinity) that is RO filtered (85%), to which we then back add 15% of the raw well water. This has been fixed.
[2] We had a problem with too infrequent sump filter cleanings of once a year or longer. The initial design of how the sumps mechanical filtration portions were to be cleaned proved to be way too laborious and too cumbersome and inefficient. Took years to realize this fully but recently, within the last year it was fixed. We removed the mechanical portions entirely, pulled out half or more of the media (too much) and now pump out / wash or vacuum the sumps.
[3] We had a problem feeding cheap aquaculture pellets as a dry feed staple, Ziegler Bros. FinFish pellet, around $1 per pound including shipping. Apparently, this results long term in poor health and longevity of the fish. We switched to 100% New Life Spectrum a couple years back. Fixed.
[4] We used to think that whole frozen fish is a complete nutritional package. It is not. Lacks some critical vitamins and minerals for sure. Now, since a couple years back, we presoak all frozen-thawed cuisine in VitaChem. Fixed.
[5] Insufficient water change. We run well water through 6 RO membranes, low pressure RO XLE-4040, 2600 gallons per day when fresh, which cost us $1500-$2000 for all 6 to replace (labor is ours). The RO membranes lose productivity over time due to calcium and magnesium salts scaling, about half in the first year. Probably only ¼ left after a couple years. This results in a continuously decreasing water change on our tanks. It is expensive to replace the membranes yearly or more often (but now we understand it’s a must) and moreover, we thought maybe things could be adequate with smaller water changes. Nope. Hence, until very recent, we had a problem with insufficient water changes of 100% in 20-30 days. Now it is 100% in 3-6 days. Fixed.
[6] We used to ride a small margin of safety with huge stocking levels in some larger tanks. It was risky and likely detrimental to fish health and longevity, either via stress or via ammonia/nitrite or lower DO, etc., despite the high turnover rate even on our largest tanks. Fixed.
[7] This is hard to fix - as a rescue we regularly get an influx of fresh pathogen cultures into our water systems. In 2018 we had a supposed columnaris outbreak, originating from fish that came from the wild and were inadequately treated in QT, that over 1-2 years ended up wiping out 25% of all fish, and this may be still continuing every now and then. This one we are working on - improving our pretreatment protocol, QT, and working toward installing a UV sanitation of our tanks.
[8] In general, we are forced to try to keep fish that can be only borderline compatible, or only temporary compatible, or whose compatibility is unpredictable, etc. Sometimes, we frivolously want to gain experience with keeping certain fish species too. This results in compatibility problems and requires constant vigilance and adjustment but still sometimes leads to deaths.
[9] When you keep at any given time about a 1000 large fish in 16 tanks, there bound to be losses of all kinds, natural and unnatural. Surely there were errors with medication dosage, maybe an occasional nitrification problem, power outage problems, etc. Some fish like arapaima merely jumped out of the too small tanks.
Hope this gives some bird eye view of our fish keeping found wanting. We are learning. Hopefully. A slow learner warning.
Seems like a good time to give account for all those deaths. Here is a concise summary of the learnings and outcomes. There have been identified many reasons, many took years to realize, understand, then correct.
[1] Too soft or too hard water. In 2015-2017 and sporadically afterwards, we had a problem with our water being either too soft (TDS ~100-150 ppm) and not buffered enough (1 degree of carbonate hardness, which means unstable pH). Or in later years sometimes we let the water get too hard, too high TDS (400-600 ppm, half is hardness), when we lost track of testing for TDS and hardness and relied on eyeballing as we make our water from raw well, light brackish water (TDS 1400 ppm, half is hardness, half salinity; some sulfur, tannin, 0.25-0.5 ppm ammonia but potable if it wasn’t for too much hardness and salinity) that is RO filtered (85%), to which we then back add 15% of the raw well water. This has been fixed.
[2] We had a problem with too infrequent sump filter cleanings of once a year or longer. The initial design of how the sumps mechanical filtration portions were to be cleaned proved to be way too laborious and too cumbersome and inefficient. Took years to realize this fully but recently, within the last year it was fixed. We removed the mechanical portions entirely, pulled out half or more of the media (too much) and now pump out / wash or vacuum the sumps.
[3] We had a problem feeding cheap aquaculture pellets as a dry feed staple, Ziegler Bros. FinFish pellet, around $1 per pound including shipping. Apparently, this results long term in poor health and longevity of the fish. We switched to 100% New Life Spectrum a couple years back. Fixed.
[4] We used to think that whole frozen fish is a complete nutritional package. It is not. Lacks some critical vitamins and minerals for sure. Now, since a couple years back, we presoak all frozen-thawed cuisine in VitaChem. Fixed.
[5] Insufficient water change. We run well water through 6 RO membranes, low pressure RO XLE-4040, 2600 gallons per day when fresh, which cost us $1500-$2000 for all 6 to replace (labor is ours). The RO membranes lose productivity over time due to calcium and magnesium salts scaling, about half in the first year. Probably only ¼ left after a couple years. This results in a continuously decreasing water change on our tanks. It is expensive to replace the membranes yearly or more often (but now we understand it’s a must) and moreover, we thought maybe things could be adequate with smaller water changes. Nope. Hence, until very recent, we had a problem with insufficient water changes of 100% in 20-30 days. Now it is 100% in 3-6 days. Fixed.
[6] We used to ride a small margin of safety with huge stocking levels in some larger tanks. It was risky and likely detrimental to fish health and longevity, either via stress or via ammonia/nitrite or lower DO, etc., despite the high turnover rate even on our largest tanks. Fixed.
[7] This is hard to fix - as a rescue we regularly get an influx of fresh pathogen cultures into our water systems. In 2018 we had a supposed columnaris outbreak, originating from fish that came from the wild and were inadequately treated in QT, that over 1-2 years ended up wiping out 25% of all fish, and this may be still continuing every now and then. This one we are working on - improving our pretreatment protocol, QT, and working toward installing a UV sanitation of our tanks.
[8] In general, we are forced to try to keep fish that can be only borderline compatible, or only temporary compatible, or whose compatibility is unpredictable, etc. Sometimes, we frivolously want to gain experience with keeping certain fish species too. This results in compatibility problems and requires constant vigilance and adjustment but still sometimes leads to deaths.
[9] When you keep at any given time about a 1000 large fish in 16 tanks, there bound to be losses of all kinds, natural and unnatural. Surely there were errors with medication dosage, maybe an occasional nitrification problem, power outage problems, etc. Some fish like arapaima merely jumped out of the too small tanks.
Hope this gives some bird eye view of our fish keeping found wanting. We are learning. Hopefully. A slow learner warning.
This particular post should be a sticky of some sort. It takes countless hours and $$ of research and sums up some serious lessons learned. It can really be helpful to many people.
Agreed. This should be stickied. I was one of those young guys who worked all summer during highschool one year to try and get like ya'll.. Just wanted a big fish tank and to keep/feed some cool predators. For all of my life i thought these fish only existed in public aquariums and The Wild. I was mesmerized by what I saw on here and all that has been accomplished by MFKs members. I put them on a pedestal, and thought good fish keeping was clear water, a full belly, and a good picture on The Forums... Along the way I lost fish because of my own mistakes directly. Lost fish due to my inexperience and occasionally forgetfulness, (I WAS a HS kid), lost fish indirectly due to stocking incorrectly ect.. But I was learning...
But then I started losing fish to my own anxiety, (changing temp too fast/frequently, switching foods, removing fish, treating the tank with poor quality medication, taking advice from people who had no business giving any) ect. And that's when i had to call it quits. I love fish, I would not let fish die on account of my fear. I had already lost a beautiful 16" Minas Gerais river Kelberi, a 12-14 inch Golden Dorado, a Nile Perch (to an RTC), a GATF (to same RTC *smh*), a huge 18-20 inch Edlicheri Bichir, a 12 inch Bahia Kelberi, and a Peruvian Mono Bass that was 15 inches + that I had raised since it was 2". I never posted about it due to fear of having the pain, sadness, and shame I felt magnified by a bunch of unwarranted and unsympathetic comments. But I did draw a line, I said " clearly I'm too dumb and this is too expensive, those guys were right, this isn't for me". But none of that is true, I live for this stuff. I just had more to learn!
This anxiety IN-PART was created by the unrealistic image certain members on this site and others tend to create for themselves by posting only about the successes and not the long arduous emotional process that Monster Fish Keeping is. I too ended up posting all my successes and none of my Ls. I was 16 years old and thought I had learned and accomplished a lot, and I had.
But when I posted on here & different Fish Related Forums I was attacked, ridiculed, and called an abuser of animals. I was shocked and appalled! I loved these fish, spent every minute of free time i had sitting in front of it, and had put some serious elbow grease into saving up $, doing research, and maintaining my new 180 gallon. So when this commenced, I kind of shut down and quit for a few years due to my own insecurities surrounding the deaths of my fish and the growing tension I felt when I posted about issues/nuances about my tank,
I lived in Boynton Beach Florida for about 2 years in 2017-2018, finally set up my first tank since 2010-2011 down there. I kept a Azul & Xingu bass I believe I got from Wes with a Tigrinus Cat from Rod at Predatory Fins. I ordered a Brokopondo bass from Rapps, it got lost in shipping in Memphis & died in the mail. A week or so later there was a hurricane. I brought my bass and tig to Rod before it hit and that was my last tank until this past month..
I recently set up a tank with the intention of keeping ATF/Rays. But once it cycled and was ready to go I decided I wanted to start out with something easier/more familiar. So now I have 3 Alligator Gar im currently growing out in a custom 50 gal bowfront. The first "monster" I ever kept was a FL gar I was sold at a LFS that was billed to me as a Gator Gar. I decided on gar because Ive kept them before and I know what to look for as an indication of distress with them. How to break them off feeders ect.. That being said, these Atractosteus gar have a much different personality than their Lepisosteus cousins. If it weren't for posts like these I'd have never found that out, I assuredly would've quit. Now, like before, I cant see a life without it. Arowanaryan returns.
Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread whatsoever, sorry about that! But I've slowly been getting back into the fray on here, been looking for an opportunity to say pretty much exactly what you just said. Us learning often comes at the expense of a fishes life, and perception often differs from reality,
In conclusion, Thank you Viktor
thebiggerthebetter
But then I started losing fish to my own anxiety, (changing temp too fast/frequently, switching foods, removing fish, treating the tank with poor quality medication, taking advice from people who had no business giving any) ect. And that's when i had to call it quits. I love fish, I would not let fish die on account of my fear. I had already lost a beautiful 16" Minas Gerais river Kelberi, a 12-14 inch Golden Dorado, a Nile Perch (to an RTC), a GATF (to same RTC *smh*), a huge 18-20 inch Edlicheri Bichir, a 12 inch Bahia Kelberi, and a Peruvian Mono Bass that was 15 inches + that I had raised since it was 2". I never posted about it due to fear of having the pain, sadness, and shame I felt magnified by a bunch of unwarranted and unsympathetic comments. But I did draw a line, I said " clearly I'm too dumb and this is too expensive, those guys were right, this isn't for me". But none of that is true, I live for this stuff. I just had more to learn!
This anxiety IN-PART was created by the unrealistic image certain members on this site and others tend to create for themselves by posting only about the successes and not the long arduous emotional process that Monster Fish Keeping is. I too ended up posting all my successes and none of my Ls. I was 16 years old and thought I had learned and accomplished a lot, and I had.
But when I posted on here & different Fish Related Forums I was attacked, ridiculed, and called an abuser of animals. I was shocked and appalled! I loved these fish, spent every minute of free time i had sitting in front of it, and had put some serious elbow grease into saving up $, doing research, and maintaining my new 180 gallon. So when this commenced, I kind of shut down and quit for a few years due to my own insecurities surrounding the deaths of my fish and the growing tension I felt when I posted about issues/nuances about my tank,
I lived in Boynton Beach Florida for about 2 years in 2017-2018, finally set up my first tank since 2010-2011 down there. I kept a Azul & Xingu bass I believe I got from Wes with a Tigrinus Cat from Rod at Predatory Fins. I ordered a Brokopondo bass from Rapps, it got lost in shipping in Memphis & died in the mail. A week or so later there was a hurricane. I brought my bass and tig to Rod before it hit and that was my last tank until this past month..
I recently set up a tank with the intention of keeping ATF/Rays. But once it cycled and was ready to go I decided I wanted to start out with something easier/more familiar. So now I have 3 Alligator Gar im currently growing out in a custom 50 gal bowfront. The first "monster" I ever kept was a FL gar I was sold at a LFS that was billed to me as a Gator Gar. I decided on gar because Ive kept them before and I know what to look for as an indication of distress with them. How to break them off feeders ect.. That being said, these Atractosteus gar have a much different personality than their Lepisosteus cousins. If it weren't for posts like these I'd have never found that out, I assuredly would've quit. Now, like before, I cant see a life without it. Arowanaryan returns.
Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread whatsoever, sorry about that! But I've slowly been getting back into the fray on here, been looking for an opportunity to say pretty much exactly what you just said. Us learning often comes at the expense of a fishes life, and perception often differs from reality,
In conclusion, Thank you Viktor
thebiggerthebetter
