Finding "Pure" Stock

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How is ordering fish online just as easy as picking them up at the local store? I don't consider having to take off work to stay home for a fish package that might or might not arrive on time that will cost me $50-$100 just for shipping. Plus you do not get to pick your fish so you really have no idea what you are getting other then having to trust the vendor.

I guess this is much easier then going to the store and paying $5-$20 for a juvi trimac. Can I get them? Yes. But flowerhorns have made getting a trimac cost 10X more then it should and made it a giant hassle.

And you can't really be nieve enough to think all fish keepers are online doing a pile of research on everything known to man. I doubt people like us account for 50% of the aquarium keepers. I'll be sure to tell my 85 year old grandfather that keeps cichlids that he's an idoit for not having internet and reading up on everything he has ever kept!
 
jgentry;2743593; said:
How is ordering fish online just as easy as picking them up at the local store? I don't consider having to take off work to stay home for a fish package that might or might not arrive on time that will cost me $50-$100 just for shipping. Plus you do not get to pick your fish so you really have no idea what you are getting other then having to trust the vendor.

I guess this is much easier then going to the store and paying $5-$20 for a juvi trimac. Can I get them? Yes. But flowerhorns have made getting a trimac cost 10X more then it should and made it a giant hassle.

And you can't really be nieve enough to think all fish keepers are online doing a pile of research on everything known to man. I doubt people like us account for 50% of the aquarium keepers.
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Ok, Ill agree that its not as easy as picking them up at a local store. I get mine shipped to my work and then bring them home with me when I get off or take them home at lunch.

I dont know how old you are, but I learned, through experience of buying crappy stuff (from cars, guitars, amps etc) that you get what you pay for and I am willing to pay the cost & shipping for quality fish online, and have for 5+ yrs...and I trust the vendors I buy from 100%. Maybe thats why I dont understand this issue. There are some great guys selling stuff online and when you buy from them regularly, you will get shipping discounts etc. Also, I have yet to see a local LFS have the quality of most fish you can buy from a reputable online vendor. The quality and selection is getting better though, mostly in part to the aforementioned online vendors.

I guess I can see how its made it a bigger hassle to get, if you havent always bought them online.

Im not naive enough to think that everyone into fish is online...I simply dont care if they arent. Times have changed and this is how things should be. If those that dont know the internet is available continue to do business without using the internet for research, they make it possible for the scammers to be out there ripping people off.

I mean think about it. If you went into your LFS and a guy tried to sell you a flowerhorn as a trimac and you called him out on it and proved him wrong, do you think hed ever try and pull some BS on you like that again? Maybe once or twice more, but then, if it were me, hed lose my business and Id tell everyone I knew that went there not to trust him.

These days, the internet, when used properly, is a shady businesses worst enemy.
 
I have no problem with what you are saying VRWC, and I end up ordering most of my fish. But not everyone has that ability or the money to do it.

I have been keeping fish for over 20 years and I think it's very sad that you cannot trust any local stores and I think that is the part that bothers me about it. I remember when you would go to your local pet store and have a relationship with the owner and you could for the most part trust them (and I'm not that old). The store owners used to be dedicated fish keepers and had a pashion for it like many people here do. There are still some of these around, but not many. And ordering online is only going to put the last few good ones out of business. I miss the old days of dropping by the store to find something new and see what the owner has breeding this week.
 
jgentry;2743659; said:
I have no problem with what you are saying VRWC, and I end up ordering most of my fish. But not everyone has that ability or the money to do it.

I have been keeping fish for over 20 years and I think it's very sad that you cannot trust any local stores and I think that is the part that bothers me about it. I remember when you would go to your local pet store and have a relationship with the owner and you could for the most part trust them (and I'm not that old). The store owners used to be dedicated fish keepers and had a pashion for it like many people here do. There are still some of these around, but not many. And ordering online is only going to put the last few good ones out of business. I miss the old days of dropping by the store to find something new and see what the owner has breeding this week.
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I agree 100% and have been in the hobby as long. I guess I just realized what youre saying a little earlier than you...so Im over being bummed that I cant just drop by the shop and see whats new and trust the shop owners. Hell, its the main reason I finally joined here after reading posts for the past 4 yrs. I got tired of not having others to talk fish talk with.

Chain stores have taken over and there are no locally owned stores in my town anymore...aside from one salt water shop whose prices are double those online and he isnt willing to come down on anything, so i dont feel bad buying everything I need online anymore.

Again, I agree that it sucks not having a shop to trust, hang out at and shoot the sh%t in about this fun little hobby.
 
jgentry;2743593; said:
How is ordering fish online just as easy as picking them up at the local store? I don't consider having to take off work to stay home for a fish package that might or might not arrive on time that will cost me $50-$100 just for shipping. Plus you do not get to pick your fish so you really have no idea what you are getting other then having to trust the vendor.

I guess this is much easier then going to the store and paying $5-$20 for a juvi trimac. Can I get them? Yes. But flowerhorns have made getting a trimac cost 10X more then it should and made it a giant hassle.

And you can't really be nieve enough to think all fish keepers are online doing a pile of research on everything known to man. I doubt people like us account for 50% of the aquarium keepers. I'll be sure to tell my 85 year old grandfather that keeps cichlids that he's an idoit for not having internet and reading up on everything he has ever kept!
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Well said. Some people don't want to ship personal stuff to work. I also like to see what I'm getting first. I'm lucky that I live 10 minutes away from Ken and am able to go admire his stocks from time to time. But he has things to do, and I can't go anytime I want and spend as much time I want like at a lfs.

Can we get what we want by spending more time and money? Of course. Stop telling people how to get what they want - WE KNOW!

But WHAT is being discussed here? Can we please have a little logic?

The question is whether or not the current situation is good or bad, NOT whether you can deal with the situation.

The question is whether or not it's HARDER to get pure breds, NOT whether or not it's STILL POSSIBLE to get them

I have no problem with FH or people who keep them. I have major problem with people lying to me.
 
VRWC;2743521; said:
You mean where you live right? or have you been to every LFS in the US and done DNA tests on all the fish? If so, Id love to read about your findings. I have 3 LFS within 2 hours of me that carry legitimate stock and even have f1 convicts with the f0 parents in the store. They sell the fry to all the other local shops for feeders and convict sales.

The only stores in my area that carry "convicts" and other CAs of known provenance either get fish from me or Rapps...and I get my fish from Ken (fishfarm), Rapps, Julie (frybabies), or collect them myself.

The chains and LFS that source their convicts and texas cichlids from farm sources are more than likely selling what are technically hybrids...or - at best - fish from multiple geographic varients.

The vast majority of hobbyists simply don't care, though...nor should they, unless it really matters to them that they have fish that are authentic to the wild.
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peathenster;2743828; said:
Well said. Some people don't want to ship personal stuff to work. I also like to see what I'm getting first. I'm lucky that I live 10 minutes away from Ken and am able to go admire his stocks from time to time. But he has things to do, and I can't go anytime I want and spend as much time I want like at a lfs.

Can we get what we want by spending more time and money? Of course. Stop telling people how to get what they want - WE KNOW!

But WHAT is being discussed here? Can we please have a little logic?
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Well if getting exactly what they want is important, then they might have to change the fact that "they dont want to ship personal stuff to work" if they cant wait at home for them or get deliveries on Saturday, right? Its as simple as that.

Im not going to stop telling people how to get what they want. Obviously, a lot DONT KNOW!

If you read the OPs first post, youd see whats being discussed here. Ill post it for you again so you know:

The question was

Have flowerhorns impacted your ability to find "pure" stock of cichlids?

not "whether or not the current situation is good or bad" or "whether or not it's HARDER to get pure breds", OK?..simma down now.

my answer is NO, flowerhorns havent impacted my ability to find "pure stock" of cichlids.
 
VRWC;2743896; said:
Well if getting exactly what they want is important, then they might have to change the fact that "they dont want to ship personal stuff to work" if they cant wait at home for them or get deliveries on Saturday, right? Its as simple as that.

Im not going to stop telling people how to get what they want. Obviously, a lot DONT KNOW!

If you read the OPs first post, youd see whats being discussed here. Ill post it for you again so you know:

The question was

Have flowerhorns impacted your ability to find "pure" stock of cichlids?

not "whether or not the current situation is good or bad" or "whether or not it's HARDER to get pure breds", OK?..simma down now.

my answer is NO, flowerhorns havent impacted my ability to find "pure stock" of cichlids.
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What does the word "impact" mean to you?
 
There are two issues here:

1) The availability of "pure" stock. What I've heard is that some LFS have good stock...most don't...and chains - which are taking over - don't. Which means that most have to go to online sources vs. buying locally.

2) The cause of the shortage of "pure" stock. What I've heard is that the cause of the challenges in finding pure trimacs is irresponsible/unscrupulous people selling poo-grade flowerhorns mis-labeled as trimacs...and that the cause of the shortage of "pure" other stuff (synspilums, "red devils", etc.) is vendors selling un-verified stock as pure...and lack of education on the part of hobbyists/purchasers to ensure that what they're being sold is what they're buying.

The solution to both, of course, is to blame responsible flowerhorn keepers and breeders. Just kidding.
 
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