Firemouth group

[RobP]

Hi, I'm a UK based fishkeeper and have recently set up a Central American tank based around a group of Firemouth Cichlids (Thoricthys Meeki). Full stock (all juvenile fish) is:

Thoricthys Meeki - group of 13 sourced from two different local shops
Rainbow Cichlid (Archocentrus multispinosus) - group of 9
Rio Yucutan Swordtails - group of 14 (4 male, 10 female)

I've been keeping fish for 20+ years and have in that time kept a variety of tanks, including high tech planted, low tech planted, Discus (for a while, found them a little boring!), various community tanks and South American Cichlids. I now have two tanks running, a 200 litre community tank and a 550 litre that is the subject of this thread.

The Firemouth tank is 5ftx2ftx2ft, approx 550 litres (150 US Gallons). It formerly housed some South American Cichlids, Sevs, Uaru, a Geophagus Brasiliensis and various deep bodied Tetras, it was a nice tank but I got fed up of fighting against our local tap water, which is quite hard (GH 20-22dh, KH 15-18dh, ph around 7.5) and traded them in.

I've always wanted to keep Firemouths but for some reason never got around to it, I've read a lot of posts on this site and think they will be well suited to living in a group and also to my water. I'm hoping to get some pairs without too much out and out aggression, basically i'm looking forward to seeing lots of natural behaviour. The Rainbow Cichlids have been added for a splash of colour, I'm hoping they are mild enough not to bother the Firemouths and have different behaviour that won't clash too much with the Meeki. The Swordtails are sold as wild type although sourced from a local shop so I can't be sure how pure they are but they are attractive fish and their role is to act as dithers for the Cichlids.

I've tried to scape the tank using a two island set up with a balance between hopefully looking good and having multiple territories available. I'm feeding flake, spirulina flake and small sinking pellets. I'm running the tank unheated and it has settled at around 24c at the moment. Filtration is an FX4 and Oase Biomaster 850. I don't love canister filters and run my 200 litre from a poret foam sponge filter but for the the big tank i've had the canisters running for a few years. The FX4 drain does help with water changes though.

Any feedback on chances of success with this setup or tips to help? I appreciate I may have to thin out the Cichlid groups as times goes on, I have a good relationship with local shops to be able to do this plus have the 200 litre as a backup. I do have a pair of HRPs that i've considered adding but have resisted for now, any views on whether they would work? Any other cichlids to consider (a pair of Nics?) or best to leave as is? I'm also quite interested in adding some wild type sailfin mollies but very rarely see them for sale.

 

[danotaylor]

Looks great!! Never tried the combination personally, but tend to agree w you regarding the potential of having to thin the herd. 21 full sized adult cichlids in a 5’ tank could get quite rambunctious, especially as pairs form

 

[bkfamus]

Looks like a great tank and combo imo... You've got more years in the hobby than me, but I've kept T. meeki consistently the last 5 years as they're prolly my favorite (though I have a lot of favorites ). I also kept H. multispinosus a few times though never together. I think your current combo should work well, since both species I've found to be non territorial ime.. though ime, H. multispinosus tend to be very prolific.. I had a pair lay eggs the first night in a 125G with bigger more robust tankmates (Nics and Crribroheros). Actually, every time I've kept rainbows they bred pretty quickly. But they're very tame in my experience even compared to other convicts types like nanolutea and hrp... I'm not sure the level of conspecific aggression among H. multispinosus, since I usually thinned out to a pair, but w/ T. meeki, the more the better ime.

I personally would stick with the 2 groups and livebearers in that size tank.. I try to avoid combining similar type species like HRPs and Rainbow cichlids to avoid the potential for hybridization... But if you really want another cichlid species you should be able to add a young pair of Oscura heterospila as they're also a mild CA species ime and dissimilar to the rainbows and meeki.. You'd lkikely need to thin the herd at some point as they mature..

I also have hard water and had to move some awesome Heros sp. inirida after growing them out for 3 years due challenges from my water.. fortunately I moved them to a good home before any permanent damage.. still sucks as they were another of my "favorites"

Gl w/ the tank.. It's fun starting over...

 

[RobP]

Thanks both, good to hear that you agree I'm on the right lines. I'm going to keep an open mind with regards to reducing the group sizes, i think as long as I keep a close eye on things I should be able step in before too much damage is done with these species.

I've read a number of posts here from people like stanzzzz7 that talk about Thoricthys working well in big groups, must admit at one point I was thinking of a slightly bigger number to start. I'm hoping I end up with more females than males as from what I've read that is more likely to work longer term.

With the Rainbow's I'd be quite happy to thin down to a pair or two, the meeki are my priority. Interesting that you found them so prolific, there was actually a pair that i left behind sitting on wrigglers in the shop even though they were obviously young fish. I took the rest as didn't want to leave behind a couple of fish to their mercy in a small dealer tank so probably ended up with a few more than i originally intended!

I think I agree re adding more cichlids, certainly in the short term. I haven't come across Oscura heterospila but they look an interesting fish.

As to favorites it's difficult in this hobby, so many fish not enough tanks. It's sometimes best not to visit shops as easy to get the kid in a sweetshop feeling! I've always been a bit frustrated with the hard water around London and its probably taken me too long to realise it's easier to work with it than against. I've tried things like RO over the years but frankly it wastes so much water and it becomes hard work, there are just so many nice South American species though!

 

[newworld]

Great tank. I would move the wood to more towards the ends of each side, giving the fish more of an open middle. I would get rid of rainbows since they aren't found together in nature, the other 2 can be….as for the amount of fish it might be over stocked a bit

 

[RobP]

thanks newworld. My thinking with the wood was to try to create 3 open territories ( one in the middle and one on either tank end outside the wood if that makes sense), there is a bit of open space behind the wood on the right as well. Possibly that means they are a bit cramped in the middle though so I will have a think about it.
Understood on the Rainbows and not being 'biotope' correct. I did think about this but in the end added them for a bit more interest but I wasn't completely sure it was the right thing to do.

 

[jjohnwm]

I love this tank idea, and am looking forward to watching your progress with it. I have kept both Firemouths and Rainbows for many years, but never actually gave either of them their own tank. They were always sort of a sideline in large tanks with larger cichlids; they always bred and raised young in environments that were...oh, let's call it "challenging". I usually found myself watching and enjoying them more than the "main" fish in those tanks. Firemouths in particular are a huge favourite of mine.

Rainbows are nice fish, and my OCD does not extend to the point of fretting about biotopically correct stocking, but I find it a bit amusing that you mention adding the Rainbows for a dash of colour. IMHO, an adult Firemouth puts any Rainbow, and most other cichlids, to shame in terms of appearance.

I have almost no experience with HRP's, none with Oscura, but even if I did I would limit the number of species in your tank. Two many species and it starts to look like the bargain bin at the LFS.

And finally, congrats on your awareness and acceptance of the fact that life is better when you keep fish that suit your water without any need to fight the chemistry wars. Bonus points for acknowledging that there might need to be some thinning of the herd as the fish mature. They won't suddenly snap and go homicidal like so many cichlids do; they'll give you plenty of warning if they start to get rambunctious.

Firemouths when mature can easily hit 6 inches or more; they will likely still get along well in a group but it's going to look pretty tight if you keep them all...and of course, your numbers will be increasing all the time...

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[duanes]

I know most people think of meeki as small to medium size cichlids, but Perez had one in a 450 gal tank that was pushing 12¨(Sam have you ever seen it?),
I wonder if he still has it?
WhenI saw it , that was a little over 10 years ago, last time I was in Chicago.

 

[RobP]

thanks both. That's an interesting point around the Rainbow cichlid splash of colour vs an adult Firemouth. I guess what i'm thinking about is short term until the meeki mature. Talking of which I had no idea they could reach 12"! That would definitely challenge my stocking levels!

I've also been down the road of keeping fish in "challenging" environments. I think its maybe one of the reasons I haven't kept meeki before, it's taken a while to commit to dedicating the space to them rather than having one or two as an extra with other fish.

This thread has already helped me commit to thinking sticking with the limited number of species will make for a better tank. Just need to stay away from the LFS and resist any impulse buys!