yep those are fire mouths. Be sure to have a dark substrate so they can have better color!
First foray into american cichlids
- Thread starter stillsirpaul
- Start date
I think the firemouth is a median in terms of aggression between the SA cichlid in your list all the CA cichlids. You could either go firemouth with acaras and geophagus or go CA with fire mouths and JDs. Some other potential fish are convicts(CA), jewel cichlids (west African but look great), BPs (hybrid), and anything between the 4-10 inch range.
Thanks SalviniCichlidFan. My water lines up fairly closely to the "Mexico" water that duanes posted above (pH around 7.6 and similar hardness)... however, my stocking preference would be for the firemouth/acaras/geophagus tank. I wouldn't want to do it if they wouldn't be agreeable to the water though. Also, what sort of stocking numbers would I want for a 120 or 125?
The substrate you are seeing in the FM photo is River of Doubt by CaribSea. I've only ever seen it once and it's just one 20 lb bag in the 40 long. I would love to buy more of it for other tanks but it was probably discontinued long ago. Although the picture I took was under a piece of driftwood, I find it has a nice sheen and I like the light and dark mix.
I do want to do sand in the 120 or 125g display tank -- is dark sand ideal for most of the cichlids we are discussing?
The substrate you are seeing in the FM photo is River of Doubt by CaribSea. I've only ever seen it once and it's just one 20 lb bag in the 40 long. I would love to buy more of it for other tanks but it was probably discontinued long ago. Although the picture I took was under a piece of driftwood, I find it has a nice sheen and I like the light and dark mix.
I do want to do sand in the 120 or 125g display tank -- is dark sand ideal for most of the cichlids we are discussing?
So you will have bottom competition for space when you stock both the FM and red head tapajos. I would only choose one of those, my preference is FM x 5 for hard water (GH reading, not PH). like in Mexico. You do not need dark sand. Pool filter sand will work just as well, and is roughly ~$11-13 per 50lbs. You probably need no more than 100-150lbs of sand for your 125g. Swordtails are what you would typically find as dithers in the wild for FM. You could grow out that other small fish you think is a GT (I don't think it is due to tail spot) with the FM.
Here is a FM biotope by Lee Nuttall (who knows quite a bit about Centrals and offers free online magazine the Central Scene)
Here is a FM biotope by Lee Nuttall (who knows quite a bit about Centrals and offers free online magazine the Central Scene)
Its not so much that the fish can't adapt, but hard water often has populations of bacteria, that soft water species do not have natural immunity to.
And the type infections come on chronically, they often show up as HLLE at maturity, or intestinal infections in the same manner.
One other thought, cichlids from west and north of the Andes are adapted to more alkaline conditions.
The genus Andinoacara is endemic to those waters.(GTs, blue scarss)
There are also some Geophagines that are from that area. G pellegrini, and steindachneri and are from the water conditions very different from Amazonian soft water species counterparts.
And i agree with Rocksor about competition, FMs are also earth eaters like Geophagus, so unless you have enough open floor/substrate space, keeping them together could be problematic.
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Thanks Rocksor and duanes. I watched both videos, Rocksor, and I do have a fair amount of driftwood so that's easily set up... it wouldn't be a problem for me to add some leaf litter as well. I do not want to do a species only tank for this project, though.
The impression I'm getting is that the 6 x 1.5 footprint 125 tank is preferable to the 4 x 2 foot footprint of the 120.
Assuming I go with the 125 because of that, how am I looking if I stocked it:
The impression I'm getting is that the 6 x 1.5 footprint 125 tank is preferable to the 4 x 2 foot footprint of the 120.
Assuming I go with the 125 because of that, how am I looking if I stocked it:
- The three FM I already have
- One GT (better with alkaline conditions)
- Three blue acara (better with alkaline conditions)
- Three threadfin acara (Are these also adaptable to alkaline conditions?)
- Small school of dithers, either swordtails or maybe bleeding heart/Buenos Aires/black skirt tetras?
Actually, with some exceptions, many to most SA cichlids do just fine with pH anywhere in the 7s and moderate hardness. For one thing, it's a misconception that all SA cichlids come from soft, low pH water and some species that are presumed to actually have a wide distribution, including locations with much higher pH than some people think. One reason for this (among several) is the smaller rivers or streams where a fish is either actually collected or where some populations of them live, can be higher pH and hardness than the main river typically associated with them.
Again, there are exceptions with some black water restricted species that won't do as well if you don't account for their limitations.
Firemouths are essentially a CA version of a SA geo, it's normally better to pick one or the other. The Geophagus genus is a fairly significant niche with a diversity of species, many of them beautiful as adults, not to mention the other SA types similar in habits or appearance.
Thanks. I do think the RH Tapajos are beautiful fish but because I already have the FMs, I've resigned to pass on them for this project. I've posted an attempt at a stock list just above, which would be the FMs with a pair of acara species and a single GT, plus some dithers. Definitely happy to receive feedback on that proposed stocking.
GT and blue acara will clash (with the GT being the aggressor) since they look so much alike. There's a smaller version of the blue acara and that's the electric blue acara, but I still would not put it in with a GT. GT's can be hyperaggressive to other species of cichlids as well. The threadfin can be a pain to other cichlids or if there is an aggressor like a GT, lose its nice threadfins.
A perfect example of misconceptions about where fish come from. Andinoacara rivulatus, the common fish most call green terrors, actually come mostly from neutral or near neutral conditions. Andinoacara stalsbergi, a much rarer fish some consider to be the green terror-- but that's a whole other discussion-- is the fish from more alkaline conditions, in fact very alkaline in the case of one particular lake within their wild distribution.
However, rivulatus are quite adaptable to anything from neutral to hard water.
Edit: Agree that green terrors are not a good fit for most other acara, except maybe in a large enough tank. I have, however, kept them with severums and many others. I've kept a lot of rivulatus, except the wilds I had that truly were terrors, most get along fine with fish that don't look too similar to them and that don't challenge them.
--But like many cichlid species they can vary and some are more belligerent than others.
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