Fish Food Analysis

[kmuda]

Man.... always on the attack. Must be something in the Canadian Water Supply.

I'm not sure what you think I am questioning. Of course all raw ingredients comprise the totality of the protein content of the food. There is however, a huge difference in something like Soy comprising 50% of the protein profile and 5% of the protein profile. 50% bothers me. 5%... not so much. Not that it is my intention to defend use of Soy... or wheat. Both are used excessively in most foods.

With the removal of Soy Isolate from NLS, the remaining manufacturers that use it are Wardley, OSI, and Nutrafin. Not exactly a steller list. Even if you disagree with my ratings, at the minimum, the collection of ingredients into one searchable location allows you to search for a particular ingredient to determine who is using it.

My question on herring meal is what is being used as the raw ingredient in the first stage of manufacture? The whole animal or processing leftovers resulting from the manufacture of fish oil... and would you still consider processing leftovers resulting from the manufacture of fish oil as the "Whole Animal"?

 

[rodger]

Man....... this is the same as trying to convince one religion is better or republican vs democrat. You guys aren't going to convince each other the other guy is wrong.

Sent from my SCH-S960L using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[kmuda]

I'm not trying to convince RD of anything. He does not need any help from me.

 

[spiff44]

I thought your articles were helpful and I appreciate that you took the time to do them. IMO- any arguments against its accuracy has really only reinforced its usefulness.

So in the absence of any better written article on the same subject for us peon hobbyist, exactly what would the agenda be for attacking it so passionately when one supposedly don’t care about what anybody thinks?

 

[kmuda]

I partially answered my own question as it relates to Herring Meal. The difference between "Whole Herring Meal" and "Herring Meal" does not involve if the "whole animal" is used. It involves whether or not the condensed fish solubles, which are basically the evaporated stickwater, are returned to the meal prior to drying. Whole Herring Meal has this condensed stickwater added back, Herring Meal does not.

"Stickwater" results from the liquids pressed out of the cooked material. This liquid is run through a centrifuge to remove the oil for other uses. What is left behind is the "stickwater", and contains about 20% of the total solids of the fish. Liquid is then allowed to evaporate, leaving behind "condensed fish solubles", which you'll sometimes find as a separate ingredient on labels. Some products such as the API Foods, use this as their primary ingredient.

When these "condensed fish solubles" are added back to the meal, it becomes "Whole Meal", or in the case of Herring, Whole Herring Meal. If these condensed fish solubles are not added back to the meal, the meal is simply identified as a meal, or in the case of Herring, Herring Meal.

 

[rodger]

I'm not trying to convince RD of anything. He does not need any help from me.

That's right. Use NLS or all of your fish will die.

 

[Brazzen1]

I totally agree with Spiff44.

 

[pops]

not that think that is what he is saying or meant to say, just giving info from what he has looked into and studied, feed Tetra if you like, the fish on there labels look quite colorful and healthy.

 

[RD.]

LMAO, this went from somewhat entertaining, to ridiculous. This is not me on the attack, this is me attempting to keep things at a factual level, instead of the fantasy version that you write about. Have you even been to a feed mill, or talked to real people who actually make real fish food? Do you know and understand how they label their raw ingredients? You make statements such as soybean meal being used as a binder, when the reality is soybean meal is NEVER used as a binding agent, even if it's inclusion rate is less than 1%. It's those kind of comments that show anyone in the know how ignorant you are. That isn't me attacking you, that's me saying that you clearly do not know what you are talking about, at least some of the time. Readers of your website should know that up front, if in fact what they are looking for is to advance their education on this subject. It's ok to admit if you honestly don't know the answer to something, just say so and carry on. Don't just regurgitate a bunch of outdated crap that you read on google.

Today there are numerous "least-cost" computer software programs designed to formulate commercial feeds, all geared to towards a specific "human consumption" species of fish. Trout, salmon, catfish, tilapia, shrimp, etc. But none exist for any of the thousands of warm water tropical species that hobbyists keep in their tanks. Some of the info can be extrapolated, the rest is a bit of guessing game where one can only go by what they see in their tanks & fish over years of use. But the bottom line is these cost saving methods for raw ingredients such as soybean meal, potato protein, etc-etc are only done to suit the commercial farmer, as in best growth for quick market sales - NOT the longevity of the fish, which is all I care about.

Apparently you consider these types of ingredients as "outstanding", I consider them a low cost cop out. It's that simple for me, there is no argument here just me stating my opinion.

 

[kmuda]

Wow..... Exactly what prompted that outburst? I was attempting to be cordial and have an intelligent conversation in an effort to gain knowledge.

In no way was I attempting to promote soy, wheat, or other non preferred ingredients. In fact, I clearly stated I was not attempting to defend use of soy or wheat. Both are used to excess in most foods.

Anyone else reading this thread come to that conclusion?

Just the opposite. I really don't get it.

Since an intelligent conversation is obviously out of the question I'll bow out of the thread.