Fish Identification

[Fishman Dave]

Unfortunately I don’t think my eyes are deceiving me.
The first two photos were the two fish before moving them.
The next two being the first fish, which almost straight away began to deform in the lower ph tank(with similar other parameters).


The second fish did not start to deform as much or as quickly, but after a couple of weeks I moved them out into a ph 7 tank again with similar other parameters and the deformation has ceased.
The second fish still being a lot less deformed than this one.
Now I do not think I have enough evidence to suggest the deformation was definitely ph related, just a very interesting set of extreme coincidences???? If you believe in coincidence.
This duck bill deformity is a strange one.

 

[kno4te]

Interesting find if a low ph is a trigger.

 

[FJB]

This is very interesting and there could be some real association with water parameters, including pH.
However, something else doesn't add up (in my mind at least).
TSN catfish have a very broad distribution in the wild, ranging from black to white waters and low to above neutral pH in northern to at least central-south South America. Individual fish also move large distances. One would think pH by itself would not result in such deformations. However, I don't have any idea. JMTCents.
I have never had one, and probably never will since I can't have the very large tanks they require. I wish I could.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Thank you so much for this, Dave! That's stunning. What about the DO? This one has been associated with skeletal deformations.

Also, why is the dorsal fin so eroded? Like half of it is missing.

 

[Fishman Dave]

Whilst not measured, all my tanks in the fish house run extreme aeration from multiple koi air pumps as I need to ensure if the pond pump fails the fish survive 12 hrs min till I find them, so DO should not be an issue.
Well spotted on the dorsal.
I have a few new additions to add to my new pick up thread including one I just put in with the tigers. And at just over half the tigers length a new wickiodes is already proving to be a little bugger.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

That's an outstanding observation on the Ph effect, if true.

It'd be worth getting more baby TSN and trying to see if this effect can be replicated because this could change our thinking about the snout defect in question.

Have you attempted to do a search on scientific literature to see if anything related has been published?

 

[esoxlucius]

I apologise in advance here guys because I don't know how to link stuff into a thread.

I did a quick search online, I put in "TSN deformity" and a load of stuff came up, remarkably linking to old threads from the MFK archive!! And thebiggerthebetter , you are participating in most of them, lol.

Apparently it is extremely common, and not only in aquarium fish, but wild fish too, and not only TSN's, with pictures of anglers catches to prove it.

Check it out, it's all there on the archive of our very forum.

 

[Mitchell The Monster]

I call it a cull

 

[fishdance]

Their mouths are relatively soft when small. It doesn't take much swimming into a wall or hard surface to create deformities. These get pushed down more and more each time an impact happens and they can be flighty fish. Once they get bigger, their skull plates harden so these deformities remain.

What some fish farms do is have an inner wall of plastic liner within the tank to create a softer impact. The same technique is used to acclimatise wild caught very large fish when put into confined spaces for the first 6 months.