Fish keeping home recipes/ unorthodox fish keeping

[ShadowBass]

You're not supposed to clean bacteria off of your filters, that is what keeps your tank cycled so you don't get ammonia and nitrite buildup. You can't see bacteria anyway though so I'm not sure what you meant.

As to the name of the thread, this isn't unorthodox fishkeeping, this is simply irresponsible fishkeeping.

It's like saying you only clean your hamsters (or substitute any other creature) cage when he starts to look sickly and it starts to stink really bad. That's not unorthodox, that's irresponsible and lazy. You keep an animals enclosure clean enough that they DON'T start looking bad or having health issues, you don't wait until that happens then do it.

Yes fish live in all kinds of conditions in the wild, that doesn't mean you voluntarily put them in poor conditions. Native fish are generally tough, and that's why yours are not dead, it doesn't mean yours is a good practice though.

 

[mudkeeper]

You're not supposed to clean bacteria off of your filters, that is what keeps your tank cycled so you don't get ammonia and nitrite buildup. You can't see bacteria anyway though so I'm not sure what you meant.

As to the name of the thread, this isn't unorthodox fishkeeping, this is simply irresponsible fishkeeping.

It's like saying you only clean your hamsters (or substitute any other creature) cage when he starts to look sickly and it starts to stink really bad. That's not unorthodox, that's irresponsible and lazy. You keep an animals enclosure clean enough that they DON'T start looking bad or having health issues, you don't wait until that happens then do it.

Yes fish live in all kinds of conditions in the wild, that doesn't mean you voluntarily put them in poor conditions. Native fish are generally tough, and that's why yours are not dead, it doesn't mean yours is a good practice though.

Oh boy, what i am doing is not irresponcible, or am i putting the fish in poor conditions. I am sure your fish have gotten sick before, and what did you do, evaluate the situation. Then help your fish get better. If we want to use outlandish examples such as the hamster, have you guys ever been sick before? (if you have you must have been living in poor conditions to have yourself become ill) Animals from time to time get sick, bacteria populations tend to fluctuate in a small system, that it is impossible to have perfect water quality year round.
I have just created a system which I feel is effective. The fish are not to the point of death, being sucked in the filters, and I come and change the water and all is well. If one shows preliminary signs of sickness, then I deal with the situation. I know the nitrogen cycle and bacteria. All the bacteria doesn't built up only in the filter. It builds up everywhere, from the film on the side of the glass, to the substrate, rocks and wood in the tank, as well as the fish. Changing the filter one a month or every few months is not going to make a huge differences if you have a large tank.
I am not voluntarily putting a fish in poor situations (besides limiting the fish within 4 glass walls). I just have a different and effective way dealing with water quality, I havent had any problems, and until then, I will adjust it so. I am anti-chemicals, and rather use natural methods to fix water, instead of the new products such as nitrate down or ammonia down. In addition, (i will probaly get yelled for this too), in my dorm, I had a ten gallon fish tank that ran peacefully for month and half with no water changes (i finally decided it was time to do a water change) for a tank filled with duckweed (very effective at absorbing nitrates and nitrites, also heavy metals) and small various fish and a little musk turtle. This tank is running in my room now, however, since its a smaller volume of water, I keep up with water changes. I wouldn't call it lazy, but different from the constant water monitering and adding chemicals that comes with other fish tanks. I was only interested if you hobbyist have kept fish for years or decades have become so knowledgable within fish keeping, that you have your own methods or secrets to keeping fish, while avoiding the extra expenses and work and maintenance, instead of the typical water change once a week, addition of necessary chemicals, testing water before and after, and so on. I knew, there was going to be some adversary against my way of keeping, so any other comments or questions, I will be pleased to respond .

 

[ShadowBass]

Hmmm, I'm going by the fact that you wait until your fish get sick or appear stressed to do water changes, not that they get sick or and you treat them. That is still akin, IMO, to waiting until any other animal starts to look under stress and then cleaning their enclosure instead of keeping up with it in the first place. Other than the fact that we don't all see fish as being as important as other animals there's no difference. Not sure how that is outlandish.

If by unorthodox you mean most of us don't do that, then yes. Still irresponsible, IMO. It's not a different and effective way of dealing with water quality, if as you stated yourself, you don't even test your water so you have no idea what your water quality normally is. Keeping native fish alive isn't exactly rocket science, some of them can practically live in sewage (heck, if you look at the state of some of our waterways it's not far from it).

I am anti-chemicals, and rather use natural methods to fix water, instead of the new products such as nitrate down or ammonia down.

Who said anything about that stuff? If you have biological filtration, which is natural, you don't have ammonia. If you do adequate water changes and don't overstock you don't have high nitrates. You said previously you don't test either of these parameters to determine water changes so how do you even know what they are? You said yourself you go by the way the fish look, and I'm telling you that with natives if they start to look like crap you water has gotten pretty out of hand. It takes a lot for most natives to start showing signs of stress.

I'm honestly NOT trying to bash you, I just disagree with your assertion that this is a different method of fishkeeping. It's not a method to me, it's simply a lack of maintenance.
A difference of feeding or filtration would be a method. Me deciding I don't feel like doing water changes consistently is NOT a method.

I don't test my water constantly, but I do enough water changes that I'm relatively certain my nitrates aren't out of hand. I have enough filtration that I know I don't have ammonia or nitrites. Monthly I test my nitrates to make sure they're still in line and either up the water changes or continue with my schedule.
If my fish appear under stress though I ALWAYS test, I don't just do a water change and hope all is well.

 

[mudkeeper]

I guess reading my first comment, it was little unclear, and made it seem I rely only on looks of fish. As for the anti-chemical comment, that was not towards anyone specifically, I use to work at a petstore, and i was amazed at the whole aisle full of chemicals for people who don't want to change their water. It seems to me everyone is under the assumption that i do not keep up with my fish, and have a guess and check type method. But no one has adress the issue that animals time to time get sick, water does fluactuate in water paremeters, or else why would we test the water. Thats what i guess I fail to say in the first comment in the thread, that i keep on normal water changes, AND WHEN THE FISH LOOKS STRESS (little closing of the dorsal fin which happens time to time, i do not have divine water), i know that i have to do another water change, or possibly a filter change. The hamster comment made me smile, hard to compare fish to mammals in terms of sickness (air is rather consistent in its qualities).
I am neither trying to preach my qualities nor suggest its the best idea. However it works for me, I have healthy lively fish, and shadow bass, sewage! lol I would say my water quality is much better than sewage. As for not knowing water quality of my tank, after working on fish tanks, school tank systems (over hundreds of gallons), I can say I can somewhat eyeball water quality. My tap water is rather acidic, my fish come from acidic areas. Usually twice a month i add a dose of baking soda to bring up the pH. As of ammonia and nitrates, I feel my substrates and filter does a good enough job, even though sometime this year i am going to add an extra canister to it. As for the stress fish, is it signficant to cause a shorter life time towards the fish, does it cause them to go off feed? When this happens, they recover less than a day to a few hours (is this a monthly event, no). As you said, again these are hardy fish, thats why I enjoy keeping them, instead of lets say keeping discus. Irresponcible, I just don't see it, unless I am waiting to bring of my fish getting fungus, ammonia burn, and infection, then dosing them with some medicine (which I will then use robitussin). If you take all the precautions with weekly water testing, then I tip my hat towards you, I don't see the point of testing the water for my current setups.

 

[Danyal]

But no one has adress the issue that animals time to time get sick, water does fluactuate in water paremeters, or else why would we test the water.

you're right, water parameters do change in our tanks, that's why you test to know when to do a water change before they get too far out of wack. i personally only test my water once every month or so but that is because i have my tanks very lightly stocked(usually) and know that it takes about a month for my nitrates to go from 20ppm to 40ppm so i try to do weekly waterchanges to keep my nitrates at 20ppm all the time. when you keep your fish in a healthy enviroment they tend to stay healthy. i haven't had to deal with ich in over 4yrs, even though i've bough fish from tanks that had ich infested fish in them and put them into my tanks without QT first(not something i'd at all recommend) the only illness i've had to deal with was my knight goby either started to develop HLLE after not getting a water change in over a month and a half because i was busy at work or got a scrape from diving under the rocks constantly either way a water change cleared it up and it never came back.

I use to work at a petstore, and i was amazed at the whole aisle full of chemicals for people who don't want to change their water.

i also work at a pet store(deathco in fact) and am also amazed by all the snake oils sold to people too lazy to do some simple maintanence.

Thats what i guess I fail to say in the first comment in the thread, that i keep on normal water changes, AND WHEN THE FISH LOOKS STRESS (little closing of the dorsal fin which happens time to time, i do not have divine water), i know that i have to do another water change, or possibly a filter change.

then you're normal water changes aren't enough to keep your fish healthy between water changes.

As for the stress fish, is it signficant to cause a shorter life time towards the fish,

yes it is, why do you think the vast majority of aquarium fish don't live to their full potential? for example goldfish have a lifespan of over 30yrs(record being 43yrs old) but very rarely do i ever find anybody with a goldfish over 15yrs old(17yrs is the oldest i've met in person) and most die within a year or two

 

[ShadowBass]

My assumptions are based on your first comment which made it seemed like you never test your water and only do water changes when the fish are sick or look to be getting sick. And then you suggested your water quality is good. You can't know that without at least doing periodic testing.

As I said, I don't test my water weekly on most of my tanks. I test monthly to make sure my water change schedule is adequate unless the fish appear to have issues. There are a lot of people that probably think I should do more to watch my water, but I rarely have water quality problems when I test.
On my more sensitive fish or on tanks that are heavily stocked or have growing fish I will test more often since things could go downhill relatively fast on those tanks.

I never suggested that fish don't get sick even in good water quality, just that it's irresponsible to SOULY use your fishes stress reaction as a guage of when you should do water changes. That's how you came off whether you meant to or not.

(air is rather consistent in its qualities).

I specifically use that example because in a hampster or most rodent enclosures for that matter if you let the bedding become saturated with waste they can develop respiratory issues from the fumes from their waste and if present the wood in the bedding.
That's why I said it was like waiting until your fish look sick to do water changes. If you don't maintain a rodent enclosure properly they can actually suffocate and die from their own waste.

 

[mudkeeper]

My assumptions are based on your first comment which made it seemed like you never test your water and only do water changes when the fish are sick or look to be getting sick. And then you suggested your water quality is good. You can't know that without at least doing periodic testing.

Yeah, it was a poorly written first comment, which sadly turned the direction of what i was hoping to hear for this thread.