Flagtail P. slime problems

[jjohnwm]

Oops, got the error message again. I meant to finish that most or all of our aquarium fish are essentially nuts due to close confinement, especially with other fish.

I'd bet folding money that the number of fish killed by Prochilodus in the Amazon is near zero. Unless the occasional victim is so weakened by something else that it can't simply swim away, a Prochilodus might give the occasional fish a quick smooch but will never have a chance to kill one with kisses. But in a tank? No escape.

I see a niche needing to be filled; we need fish psychologists to talk our fish through their psychoses and help them live long and productive lives.

 

[shern]

Some aquarists find my theories too anal, but all fish adapt to certain habitats, with those aquatic predatores, and prey they share habitats with.
In my opinon there are reasons we don't find certain species together, and that evolution has worked over millions of years perfecting those reasons
Flag tails from S America, and bichers from Asia and Africa, are examples of fish that haven't evolved together, so haven't adapted to those evolutionaray norms, and so as you have already noticed, may come into conflict.
To me, mixing continents and species in the confines of a glass box only exaggerates those problems.
To me bichers and flag tails should never be kept in the same tank.
And I'm just as anal even withing same fish families
To me S American and African cichlids should never be kept together,
or even more anal
S American and Central Americans don't belong together in the same tank .

completely agree, and no I don't think your theories anal. I think that habitat situation and ecological niche are extremely overlooked subjects when trying to determine tank dynamics and interactions.

It's often that people forget that many aquarium fish are wild caught, and regardless of WC or CB, the behaviors and instincts of the fish stay relatively similar. For example, fish may be over exposed for long duration of stress and abnormal behavior shifts in simulated ecosystems due to either a lack of or an excess of clashing interactions. An apex predator that has been dominant for all of eternity put into a tank with 7 other apex predators now has to change its behavior because no longer is it at an untouchable throne. Same applies with community fish or schooling fish like coincidently the flagtail P.; these fish are often known to school in groups of 5 or more and most aquariums in the hobby keep them singled for their algae eating purposes or for other non natural dynamics rooted in culture like 龍虎鳳 (dragon tiger phoenix) from my country china, consisting of arowana, tiger fish and flagtails.

now I definitely am not going to stand on a high hill and say that it is immoral to keep fish this way as I am as guilty as the next fish keeper with their tank selections. though while selfish, we usually pick off personal preference and just wanting a miracle or exception when keeping fish. like running an all predator tank, its 50/50 whether every fish tears each other into shreds the second they meet or they decide to become the best of friends. Its definitely not smart to just gamble with fish in this context but its happens.

 

[shern]

I sometimes might take it even further.
Just because a fish comes from say the Amazon river, doesn't mean they come from the same habitat.

Heros cichlids (severum clade) normally live in sedate slow current areas of the river.

Many Geophagines come from rheophillic high flow areas (even rapids) of the Amazon.
To me this means, they should not be kept in the same tank, unless it is large enough to provides both habitats.

Too anal?

also completely right, even the slightest difference in depth or current can drastically change the parameters or living conditions of that area. Different external variables will result in the rise of different animals adapted to those specific ecological niches and competition, modern day aquariums is honestly, just a tank of all invasive species, as there is no inherent environment in a given tank before creation. Additionally, not many tanks are made with full ecosystems in mind, whether due to ignorance or just sheer difficulty.

 

[shern]

...mmmmmmmaybe...?

I've always had a sneaking suspicion about something...I'll toss it out now for discussion, analysis or ridicule. While we're fretting and wringing our hands over fish with differing water requirements, or varying dietary needs, or if we kick it a little further into the weeds and start talking about different water-flow preferences or even something as apparently simple as the idea of various "personalities" that vary from species to species and also from individual to individual within a species...nobody seems to give much thought to this.

All of these fish evolved to live in their specific habitats; that's a given. Species that live in exactly the same areas and in the exact same microhabitats within those areas might get along famously together in a tank...but there's just as good a chance that there will be conflict, if they compete for the same resources. You don't want them seeing each other as competitors for anything, whether that is food, space, shelter, breeding sites, whatever. Competition in nature is what keeps the competitors spaced out and separate from each other.

In a tank, that isn't an option. Whatever species an aquarist decides to keep are stuck with each other, 24/7. No escape, no avoidance. If two fish in your tank decide they don't like each other's faces, tough; there's no avoidance possible. It doesn'

exactly what i just wrote, preach jjohnwm !!!

 

[duanes]

One of the other things that can be problematic (and many aquarists seem to be clueless about) is keeping rheophillic pleco species and sedate water species like discus and severums together, and not expecting those Plecos to take advantage of the tasty and nutricous slime production.
Although they are from the same river systems, many plecos inhabit high current areas, hence their ability to latch on to surfaces.
Here in Panama they are known as Chupa piedras (stone suckerrs), and are seldom found in the sedate, waters where slow moving species live.
,
,
Same with the whiptails where currents are at least as strong as the river below.
,

Doesn't mean plecos don't adapt the an easier life style, but then expecting to do so without consequense to available tasty slime coats, is wishful thinking.
In nature they can be satisfied with the nutricious algae that grows in high current, sunlit areas, but in often paltry lit tanks, that diet may needs some extra supplimental boosting.