Flow Specialists Input Needed

[nzafi]

Fish Tank Travis thanks for the input but there are a couple reasons I have decided to not go with a sump.
- Less maintenance. I do not want to deal with filter socks or even another tank getting dirty. The HMF requires to only be cleaned once a year or possibly longer.
- Closed loop. You lose heat with a sump and you have more water to heat. While not a huge issue, I do not want to expand the extra wattage/$ which add up.
- Backup safety. The HMF is located in the tank. If I ever have a power outage my stock will have a much better survival rate with in tank filter sponges and a heated drip. I have gone through a power outage for several weeks and it was not pretty.
- Cost. The purchase of used tank, extra equipment, and watts to run add up. By going acrylic, closed loop, and high efficiency filters I will be able to run my 535g for close to the same cost as my 180g tank.

I originally planned to run dual ultimas but the biggest problem cost (extra $1000 in setup and much higher running cost), and I do not have a way to hide heaters and drain pipes as the tank will be up against the wall.

 

[Fish Tank Travis]

I’m not sure I believe that the HMF only needs to be cleaned only once a year. The fish still produce the same amount of waste and there will definitely be some getting trapped in the HMF. Obviously, the Ultima will catch a bit of it too, and you’ll be able to easily backflush it.

Honestly, even after your explanation above, I still think a sump is your best option. You can still use a warm water drip to help heat the tank. Also, if you cover the tank and sump well then you shouldn’t loose very much heat, but you will get much better oxygenation

 

[nzafi]

There is another member on here running 2 265g and I think a 220g and 180g all on HMF. Cleanings range from 8 months to one year depending on stock.

I was originally planning to go sump, but after a year or so of researching and thinking of different scenarios this is where I have landed for now at least. I still have a little time to decide.

I would not go sump only because I want to avoid clearning of the bottom. Hence the reason I am doing bottom drains with the ultima and want to make sure my flow will direct waste to those intakes.

 

[nzafi]

Any other takers on this?

I am leaning towards option 2 which has the returns behind the sponge filter. While it sucks that I will not be able to apply educators, I think it will give a very clean look to the tank. Most importantly, I think it will actually make plumbing much simpler so that I do not have to worry about go up and over the tank.

JK47 I also like your suggestion on the pipe size. I think I will probably go with a 1/2in auto drip drain, as that will allow plenty of flow for a drip drain. Additionally, I will probably just do a 1in return which will then split into two 3/4in locline returns. Looking at some flow rate it looks like a 1in pvc pipe will let me hit up to 2,200 gph which should be plenty considering I am looking at a total of 2,000gph from the ultima.

 

[nzafi]

JK47 mrrobxc this is what I was trying to explain to you guys via private chat. Please excuse the crude drawings but you’ll see what I envisioned of returns from the corner or over the back.

The first pic is doing either 3 returns over the back or two return pipes that split in two. Third pic is just return via hmf.

I think returns over the back give significant flow options and ability to configure/direct. While via the hmf will be much cleaner but limited to one approach essentially.

 

[DB junkie]

WTF is HMF?

I'd be happy to offer input IF you wanted it. Last time I mentioned doing something different in a guys filtration thread it was a huge mistake....... lmao

 

[nzafi]

WTF is HMF?

I'd be happy to offer input IF you wanted it. Last time I mentioned doing something different in a guys filtration thread it was a huge mistake....... lmao

LOL. I will take any feedback. HMF = Hamburg Matten Filter.

Instead going with a sump, I am going with two corner HMF filters. This will let me hide equipment, take up minimal space, provide secondary filtration to ultima, and emergency filtration if I have a power outage.

 

[DB junkie]

You aren't keeping rays are you? lol

Rather then tell you what to do I'll tell you the shiat show I'm dealing with..... I recently moved. So of course I took that opportunity to once again attempt to improve my systems. I began dinking with the flushable sand/bead/ultima type filters. Great IF starting from scratch. A PAIN in my life to adapt to the more typical filtration I've become used to running.

The filters are great. Backflushing is super. What is NOT super is the sea foam that you get from NO surface skimming. I have ZERO interest of ever running a system without surface skimming. I simply keep too dirty of creatures. I refuse to keep ray free tanks long term, and the sea foam that comes with feeding rays must have surface skimming in my opinion.

SO - just like that my hopes and dreams of the simplicity assocoated with a closed loop system GONE.

Well I hate socks. Doesn't everyone? But I just add this to the list of things in life that suck but are necessary - kind of like drinking at work - that woulod be great! But I guess I see the side where its necessary to wait till after work......

So what is a guy to do? I will use both. Is it easier? Nope. Is it better? I think so. Is it a pain in the arse? Yup. Will you still need to change socks? Yup. As often? Not even close.

I'm actually in the SAME boat you are. I have a 10x4 going up. Started on stand mods this weekend. My tank is a Tenecor with the trapezoidal overflows in the back wall. I will use one of the overflows to surface skim for the standard sump. The other overflow I will modify to draw off the bottom and feed the flushable filter. This will allow all the big stuff to get pulled into that filter while the lil stuff that floats ends up in socks in the sump. More the likely I'll use the surface skimming side with the socks to gravity feed a wet/dry. The flushable filter will feed a moving bed that will likely gravity drain back to the tank.

Now down the road I may add a second flushable filter to get away from socks all together but I don't think I will stray from the idea that water needs to be drawn from the surface no matter what, and running a flushable filter from a weir is proving to be a pain due to the backflush and the massive amount of water needed to pull this off.......

 

[DB junkie]

Few things I missed.......

Moving beds - I friggin LOVE em. Love looking at them. I find them funner to watch then the fish some days, and funner then a lava lamp everyday....... SO, I refuse to hide them. In fact in the future I will be using the flushable filters to feed the moving beds ABOVE the tanks where I can see them. Its a lot easier to make them out of 55 gallon drums but you can't see whats going on in there. Why not use the thousands of gallons an hour that already went through the flushable filter to churn moving bed media? Seems like a waste to just return to tank.

The drawback I've found with moving beds is meds and the tendancy of the media to float in a power cut. Both these scenarios can land all your bio on the floor - dried out. To remedy this a simple solution I've used is putting a wet/dry tower OVER the moving bed. The moving bed can't dry out now....... IF you use a sock tank(seperate tank that holds the socks) that sits HIGHER then the wet dry you can just gravity feed all the water down through the wet/dry and you have all that water coming down on the moving bed...... Seems to be working great for me - Prazi wan't float it anymore and an air pump that blows a diaphragm no longer means media floating and eventually dumping out onto the floor......

 

[nzafi]

DB junkie Here is a link to my original tank planning. I quickly scoped out a sump quickly. My filter considerations were between corner HMF fitlers or using internal overflow boxes with K1. You might think I am crazy, but my stock right now is a single aimara. Not sure I will add anything large to the tank going forward. Maybe a school of small colorful fish, but considering he has been solitary from 4in to 14in and will be 18in by the time I move him, I suspect it will be hard to add anything.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/tank-upgrade-450-550g-planning.697648/