For Dr.Joe

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pirahna1950;745694; said:

cool definetly can use simpler reads. A few questions though regarding the following quote from your link.

Is inert atmospheric nitrogen the same thing as nitrites?

Why would it convert nitrogen into ammonia? Isn't that bad?

How is it that a WET/DRY filter works if oxygen is not necessary?

Sorry haven't had biology for 20 some years and to embarressed to ask the kids, but I would like to understand a little.

Cyanobacteria are important in the nitrogen cycle.
Cyanobacteria are very important organisms for the health and growth of many plants. They are one of very few groups of organisms that can convert inert atmospheric nitrogen into an organic form, such as nitrate or ammonia. It is these "fixed" forms of nitrogen which plants need for their growth, and must obtain from the soil. Fertilizers work the way they do in part because they contain additional fixed nitrogen which plants can then absorb throough their roots.

Nitrification cannot occur in the presence of oxygen, so nitrogen is fixed in specialized cells called heterocysts. These cells have an especially thickened wall that contains an anaerobic environment. You can see these larger cells among the filaments of Nostoc, shown at right.

Many plants, especially legumes, have formed symbiotic relations with nitrifying bacteria, providing specialized tissues in their roots or stems to house the bacteria, in return for organic nitrogen. This has been used to great advantage in the cultivation of rice, where the floating fern Azolla is actively distributed among the rice paddies. The fern houses colonies of the cyanobacterium Anabaena in its leaves, where it fixes nitrogen. The ferns then provide an inexpensive natural fertilizer and nitrogen source for the rice plants when they die at the end of the season.
 
pirahna1950;745677; said:
Kol, How many genus of cyanobacteria are you aware of? I was amazed that so very few new they are responsible for life as we know it. :D


Subgroup Chroococcacean
This subgroup includes the unicellular rods and cocci.
Synechococcus including Anacystis nidulans
Synechocystis
Chamaesiphon
Gloeobacter
Gloeothece
Microcystis
Aphanothece

Subgroup Pleurocapsalean
This subgroup includes unicellular cyanobacteria bound into aggregates by shared outer wall layers.
Dermocarpa
Dermocarpella
Chroococcidiopsis
Myxosarcina
Xenococcus
Pleurocapsa

Subgroup Oscillatorian
This subgroup includes the trichomatous cells that do not form heterocysts
Oscillatoria
Spirulina
Pseudoanabaena
Lyngbya
Phormidium
Plectonema
Trichodesmium

Subgroup Nostocacean
This subgroup is heterocystous and includes organisms forming trichomes of even width.
Anabaena
Nostoc

Subgroup Rivularean
This subgroup is heterocystous and includes organisms forming trichomes that taper, with heterocysts that form at the thicker end of the trichome.
Calothrix


Subgroup Stigonematalean
This subgroup is heterocystous and includes organisms forming trichomes that branch.
Fischerella
Chlorogloea or Chlorogloeopsis

Genera of uncertain affiliation
Aphanothece
Aphanocapsa
Cylindrospermum
 
B, Why did you leave out the important part?

The cyanobacteria have also been tremendously important in shaping the course of evolution and ecological change throughout earth's history. The oxygen atmosphere that we depend on was generated by numerous cyanobacteria during the Archaean and Proterozoic Eras. Before that time, the atmosphere had a very different chemistry, unsuitable for life as we know it today.
 
pirahna1950;745761; said:
B, Why did you leave out the important part?

Sorry, I realize their are bacterias that produce oxygen so for my questions it was not necesary to post. Will you not answer my questions or is your sole purpose here to slam Dr. Joe? Who by the way has alot of credibility on this site with members he has helped often.
 
pirahna1950;745561; said:
Typical response. :( The theory has nothing to do with IF there are bacteria that produce oxygen, but rather WHEN the exhisted. Nice try though. :D Maybe you should read it AGAIN. :D

I tried to be nice and stop this graciously but...

In what way does this pertain to the bacterialological process in an aquarium filtration system?

For the most part cyanoabacteria don't exit in these filters.

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johnptc;745571; said:
how does this tie in with biofilters ???:confused:

My question exactly.

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johnptc;745600; said:
sorry guys i didnt mean to interupt a good debate :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate Try as I might I can't make it apply here.


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pirahna1950;745677; said:
Kol, How many genus of cyanobacteria are you aware of? I was amazed that so very few new they are responsible for life as we know it. :D

new ?
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Bderick67;745726; said:
cool definetly can use simpler reads. A few questions though regarding the following quote from your link.

Is inert atmospheric nitrogen the same thing as nitrites?

Why would it convert nitrogen into ammonia? Isn't that bad?

How is it that a WET/DRY filter works if oxygen is not necessary?

Sorry haven't had biology for 20 some years and to embarressed to ask the kids, but I would like to understand a little.

1) No, Inert atmospheric nitrogen is just that (inert and without oxygen), and doesn't react to other substances unless reacted upon (heated usually). Nitrites are organic salts (for our discussion here).

2) Some forms of cyanobacteria perform this process, but are not in our filter systems.

3) Your right, oxygen is extremely important in a W/D. The bacteria in these filters is not anoxic. I usually suggest putting an airstone under the bio-material in the bottom of the sump to help the process.

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Bderick67;745776; said:
Sorry, I realize their are bacterias that produce oxygen so for my questions it was not necesary to post. Will you not answer my questions or is your sole purpose here to slam Dr. Joe? Who by the way has alot of credibility on this site with members he has helped often.

Thank You for your kind words.

Dr Joe

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Joe, you misspelled bacteria. :D

For the most part cyanoabctria don't exit in these filters.

Really? I certainly hope your wrong, AGAIN. We even buy it to feed certain fish under the Spirulina name. You can find it in just about any body of water thats not chemically treated. :D

Is inert atmospheric nitrogen the same thing as nitrites?

Its a byproduct that escapes into the atmosphere.

Why would it convert nitrogen into ammonia? Isn't that bad?

No. In fact, in order for plants and animals to be able to use nitrogen, N2 gas must first be converted to more a chemically available form such as ammonium (NH4+), nitrate (NO3-), or organic nitrogen (e.g. urea - (NH3)2CO).

How is it that a WET/DRY filter works if oxygen is not necessary?

Again, cyanobacteria DOES create oxygen. You should read the whole article and not just what you think will support antiquated ideas.


John Arthur Harrison, Ph.D.
There are also nitrogen fixing bacteria that exist without plant hosts, known as free-living nitrogen fixers. In aquatic environments, blue-green algae (really a bacteria called cyanobacteria) is an important free-living nitrogen fixer.

Originally Posted by Bderick67
Sorry, I realize their are bacterias that produce oxygen so for my questions it was not necesary to post. Will you not answer my questions or is your sole purpose here to slam Dr. Joe? Who by the way has alot of credibility on this site with members he has helped often.

B, There are your answers. As for slamming Dr.Joe, not really. I am however attempting to do away with a myth or two and perhaps prevent further abuse of power of a moderator. He owes EVERYONE an apology for the childish behavior and needs to accept that he is not ALWAYS right. :D
 
p1950. the MFK site is for discussing fish related topics. not for displaying how cocky you are. try to tone it down alittle.
 
pirahna1950;746312; said:
B, There are your answers. As for slamming Dr.Joe, not really. I am however attempting to do away with a myth or two and perhaps prevent further abuse of power of a moderator. He owes EVERYONE an apology for the childish behavior and needs to accept that he is not ALWAYS right. :D

Well I learned two things of value from this thread;

1-cyanoabactria, produces oxygen(this may be helpful if I am ever on a game show such as Jeapordy)

2-pirahna1950, well....it's probably best to just leave it at one thing I've learned.

IMO it was your only intent with this thread to flame Dr. Joe. Your crediblity is now :thumbsdow
 
To all MFK's I do apologize...for letting this go on this long. I've spoke my piece and made my points, I don't feel the need for re-hashing... Obviously in pirahna1950's mind I wronged him...so be it. You can't right a wrong that you do not know of.

So now I will just censor myself before I committ sedition.

"inflamitory comments deleted as inappropriate"

Dr Joe

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