Thank you both of you. I totally agree 100% with creepy old guy they are a totally overlooked ray and I love them all the more for it. I have to be honest I also have 1 hystrix and I actually like the retics far more, they seem to have more personality to me. But maybe it's just the male Hystrix I have who knows. And Thanks Josh on the comment about the mom, I am pretty impressed by her as well. You never see the big adult retic rays' and I am lucky enough to have them and have them breeding successfully.