You'd be fighting one heck of a losing battle if you're going to stand up on that soapbox. . . I'd still have to say no on Oscar's and Fronts though. . .
fronts and oscars
- Thread starter baracuda
- Start date
You'd be fighting one heck of a losing battle if you're going to stand up on that soapbox. . . I'd still have to say no on Oscar's and Fronts though. . .
I'd be willing to bet my entire collection of fish and tanks that the percentage of hobbyists who make sure that the water parameters for every fish they keep are the same as those the fish would be in in the wild is less than 5%. like croc 2-3 said, it's the wild caught and f1's that I worry the most about. with oscars you're talking about a species that has been farm bred and tank raised for so many generations that they have no idea what their "natural" conditions should be like. if the fish grows correctly, shows proper color and behaves normally then I see no cause for concern. with wild caught fish I would definitely be more likely to mess with water parameters, but with fish that have been tank raised for as long as oscars have been I wouldn't mess with it. I'm not saying that out of callousness or laziness either, but rather from the perspective that messing with the water parameters can be much more dangerous than having steady water parameters. if you mess with ph and kh then water changes become much more difficult.
on another note, check this page http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summar...12&genusname=Astronotus&speciesname=ocellatus which is the fishbase profile of the oscar, Astronotus ocellatus. Primarily check out the natural environment of the oscar which it says "pH range: 6 8; dH range: 5 - 19". the upper ranges are very similar to the hard and alkaline waters found in Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi. Many CA cichlids actually come from very hard and alkaline waters and so do some of the coastal SA fish.
now, as for what to keep with your fronts, you could go with a Cyprichromis species but the best way to do this would be to start with Cyp adults and juvie fronts because cyps make up a large part of the natural diet of frontosas so if you start out with larger fronts and smaller cyps then the cyps probably won't last that long. another option would be some type of rock dwelling cichlid like Neolamprologus brichardi, Neolamprologus pulcher or Neolamprologus leleupi. I'm keeping N. pulcher with mine and I'm hoping once they go into a larger tank that the pulcher will be allowed to breed and the fry become a free food source for the fronts. if it doesn't work out then I'll move the pulcher to their own tank where they can breed and I'll just net some out from time to time to feed to the fronts.
I don't care what other hobbyists do or don't do. When asked, I'll give a response I believe to be appropriate to the subject matter.
Finding a post listing a pH range of 6 to 8 for any non-migratory fish is cause enough to pause and think as to the validity of such a claim.
BTW, anyone can search around the net long enough to find the answers they want to see instead of an answer they need to see. Here's the end result of a quick 5 minute search on the pH preferred by oscars:
Mike Edwardes Tropicals: Oscars
Water: 16°dH, 8°KH, pH 7.2.
Cichlids.com
Water
Ideal temperature: 20-26 Celsius, (70-80F)| Water chemistry: Most water conditions tolerated, prefer pH 6.5 - 7.0 (Soft to slightly hard)
Age of Aquariums
Name: Astronotus ocellatus
Size 35 cm
pH 7.2
GH 10
Temp 26°C
Origin: South America
Finding a post listing a pH range of 6 to 8 for any non-migratory fish is cause enough to pause and think as to the validity of such a claim.
BTW, anyone can search around the net long enough to find the answers they want to see instead of an answer they need to see. Here's the end result of a quick 5 minute search on the pH preferred by oscars:
Mike Edwardes Tropicals: Oscars
Water: 16°dH, 8°KH, pH 7.2.
Cichlids.com
Water
Ideal temperature: 20-26 Celsius, (70-80F)| Water chemistry: Most water conditions tolerated, prefer pH 6.5 - 7.0 (Soft to slightly hard)
Age of Aquariums
Name: Astronotus ocellatus
Size 35 cm
pH 7.2
GH 10
Temp 26°C
Origin: South America
I wasn't searching around for the answers I want, I simply know that (at least to my understanding) fishbase lists the water parameters of the water where the fish are found in the wild, not water parameters that hobbyists list as preferred for the species. the information from age of aquariums and cichlids.com is from hobbyists who keep the fish. I don't know anything about the other source you mentioned though however it sounds like a seller/distributor. like I said, to my knowledge the information provided on fishbase is what's recorded at the actual collection locations however I will admit that I could be wrong about that.
and that's fine, I am the same way in that what other people do or don't do does not govern the way I keep my fish. However, if having a fish that has adapted to conditions that are not an exact replica of what they would find in the wild is inhumane, then our entire hobby is inhumane.
and that's fine, I am the same way in that what other people do or don't do does not govern the way I keep my fish. However, if having a fish that has adapted to conditions that are not an exact replica of what they would find in the wild is inhumane, then our entire hobby is inhumane.
If you are going by the bio-types then there are different species for different bio-types all over. A river species from africa may have similar needs as one from SA. Or they will be totaly different. Either way a fish tank will never be either river of orign of species. Intorduced is introduced no matter how you word it ,it means the species was not there before. The bio-type can change from season to season depending on rainfall & other natural occurnces. Fish are adaptable to some exten. Captive bred are so far from the wild caughts that they are more readily hybridized to species not even of the same complexas all they no is captive conditions. have a fish in a tank is forcing it to live in our care anyway no matter how you word it. I'm not arguing just saying as long as you stay with in certain parameters a fish tank is more stable then any wild bio-type anyday.
If you star with bigger fronts you can try it 1 oscar should be ok with 3 fronts.
If you star with bigger fronts you can try it 1 oscar should be ok with 3 fronts.
There is no question really... If you want your fish to be vibrant, disease resistant, and reproductively healthy, you should attempt to duplicate their native water chemistry. It is not that difficult and it should not mean fluctuating and unstable conditions.
If you're going to keep S. Americans and Africans together, why not throw in some goldfish for color? How about a marine betta for show? Perhaps a few live corals would brighten up the decor?
even with fish that are so far removed from their native habitat? many people keep and breed oscars in a wide range of water conditions.
well, I'm not going to say anything about the absurdity of the marine betta and corals, but many people mix SA/CA cichlids with africans. it is not my cup of tea because I prefer as close to a biotype like setup as possible. that is not the way all fish keepers are though. some simply like to keep the fish that are visually appealing to them no matter where they come from. I've seen some very crazy looking setups with mixtures of fish I'd have never thought of.
