Frustrating PH what would YOU do?

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Jan 27, 2007
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I'd like to hear what you guys would do if put in this situation...

I have stupid high PH here. I knew it was high but didn't know HOW high. Well it's that time of the year that just makes me want to pull my hair out. Once again my Armatus are dropping like flies. 3 down, 1 not eating and the runt still seems to be acting normal. I'm not insane, I make changes every year, bigger tanks, more flow, bigger filters, more WCs. This is year 3 of the Armatus plague. Well the rays are just fine as always.

I went and had a water analysis done at the spa shop today. They have a very fancy machine that is very accurate. PH straight out of the tap is 8.5. In the tanks and pond is >8.8. That's right 8.8 OR above. The machine tops out at 8.8 so it may even be higher.

Water dept says 7.5 is what the water at the plant is and think it must be excessive buildup in the pipes.

I'm at a loss as to what to do.

I'm toying with options. I can rent a water softener. I can buy a RO system. I could attempt to knock down PH by adding vinegar in a mixing vat and mix prior to WCs. I'm assuming the mixing vat is present in the RO equasion as well. Leading me to think a water softener may be the best option for I'd be able to keep my drip system in tact, BUT I've also heard negative things about softeners. I don't wanna shock the rays, they are used to this liquid rock water after being here almost 2 years now.

I don't want the rays constantly stressed by unideal water conditions and think the PH may have something to do with my epic FAIL in the Armatus dept.

I've always listen to people saying high PH is fine for rays but where do you draw the line? I've never even heard of 8.8 in a tank, let alone keeping rays in it. I can't imagine this to be good for longterm health of animals from South America which is where all my fish except the Odoe and one Gar come from.

I love Armatus and after losing them year after year nothing would make me happier then to be able to keep even one alive over a friggin year.

Other parameters are total hardness 358. Alkalinity 260. TDS 350. Saturation index 1.8.

Kinda thinking of RO. Start with small WCs with straight RO till I get around neutral then just mix a lil tap with it for WCs then just minimize WCs with a bunch of Pathos under growlights. I'm not worried about cost of an RO system BUT my water bill is allready over $100/mo. Dumping 4 gallons down the drain to get 1 doesn't sound like a winning idea for the currently unemployed.

So help me out guys!!! WTF do I do? What would YOU do? As always my rays, myself, and my almost extinct Armatus thank you in advance for any participation in my attempt to fiz this issue.
 
lol sounds like my water, i live in edmonton AB and the water here is a solid 8.0 year around so i dont touch it. in your case i would suggest this pond softener/ph down i totally forget what its called though, but skynoch uses it so skynoch feel free to pipe in anytime. Anyways for water as terribly hard and high pH as ours it seems to work great, just let it age for a while and you'll be flying high in no time. The reason i suggest only this product is because with other products like seachem acid buffer i seemed to get a ridiculous wave for my pH, high then low then high then low, but with this stuff it stayed a solid 6.8 till the next water change.
 
mareshow;3897010; said:
lol sounds like my water, i live in edmonton AB and the water here is a solid 8.0 year around so i dont touch it. in your case i would suggest this pond softener/ph down i totally forget what its called though, but skynoch uses it so skynoch feel free to pipe in anytime. Anyways for water as terribly hard and high pH as ours it seems to work great, just let it age for a while and you'll be flying high in no time. The reason i suggest only this product is because with other products like seachem acid buffer i seemed to get a ridiculous wave for my pH, high then low then high then low, but with this stuff it stayed a solid 6.8 till the next water change.
I actually gave up awhile ago on any chemicals and ph adjusting since all my rays are use to our water. The best bet for you db would be an r/o system which you can use as a drip system taking some regular water off a "t" as well to get your right balance. I'll find a link to a cheap ($700) one that will do around 700 gal/day. This is the one I have and it works great.
A water softener that uses salt will cause long term issues with too high a salt content in your water. The other softeners on the market I can't give any feedback on since I don't really know anything about it.
I don't think the peat will work with the amount of water you change out in a day.
 
I think peat, driftwood, and things of that nature only work on moderately hard water, not stuff this hard.

I can knock down WC requirements significantly by adding a bunch of plants, so I was thinking I wouldn't need a system capable of over a couple hundred gallons a day at the most.

So there's water softeners out there that don't use salt????

Can anyone confirm or deny that there are rays being kept at a PH of >8.8? I understand that low to even mid 8s is OK but I think this is really pushing it.
 
My rays are at a ph of 8.6 and my tds reading is almost double yours at times. My rays seem to be doing fine and I just added a scomb a few months ago.
The 700 gallon a day g.e. system I will find a link too is actually cheaper than the ones I've found that are around 100-200 gallons a day, it isn't as good as some but is more than sufficient for your needs. It's not a cheap solution but I'm not sure of anything else solving your problem. The next question to ask is at this time of year does your water department up it's chlorine due to runoff?
 
is your pluming old lead pipes? if water dep is saying 7.5 i just wounder what gives. what are your neighbors ph? i have a friend that had a petshop that used something to reduce ph but i don't remember what it was i will call and find out i know it wasn't a pet related product. my current problem is my total hardness is like yours over 300 GL
 
The problem with ph reducers and having high buffers is that your ph will bounce right back up after a day. If you lower the ph by chemicals you first need to reduce your buffers and the best way is r/o. With the amount you drip into your system I don't think it would be due to just your piping since the water wouldn't sit in it that long or be exposed to your piping that long.
 
I don't know how big your tank is but I'd either buy RO water (at WalMart in 5 g jugs) or buy an RO unit and mix 1/2 tap with 1/2 RO water. If it means that much to you to have softer water. I've got water hard like yours and even my Discus do fine in it. Maybe it's not the water hardness causing you problems? I don't know.
 
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