Full grown oscar died... why?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
duanes said:
There are thousands of reasons for fish to die including old age....but
high nitrate, and the gasping for breath are the only 2 obvious reasons/symptoms you have mentioned so far.
Nitrate is a stress producer at over 20ppm, it may have been lowering the oscars immune system since July, and finally taken its toll. (oscar natural waters would not be higher the 5ppm most of the year)
Most oscars build tolerance in aquariums over time, but manifest high nitrate toxicity by coming down with HITH, or developing enlarged gill plates/areas, and other diseases, (and gasping) but if the tank it came from, was low in nitrate, and your nitrate is 80, a more acute response may have been the result.
With a concentration of 80ppm nitrate, sounds like your water change schedule, and filter cleanings need to be more frequent.
Did you quarantine it before adding it to your tank.
There may be factors your original fish have become immune to, that the oscar isn't/wasn't .
Have your original fish had any diseases in the past, they have overcome?
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oscar was first in. Tank was freshly cylced with goldfish, which I returned didn't let him eat. He was the original fish. I do 50% 1x a week but don't vacuum the gravel much which I'll change. No qt because he was only fish

Should add at the end of cycle it was 0,0, 20 approx so not ideal but those goldfish are messy

Btw really appreciate everyone's feedback and input

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Check nitrate levels in your tap water, Florida water is known for being piss poor (heavy metals etc-etc), in some cases lethal so at this point do not rule out your tap water as a potential cause. Ryansmith (another Floridian) had this happen last year, but he's not from Orlando.


suprd - the OP examined the liver, and with his experience it sounds like he knows what fat deposition on an animals liver would look like. That was ruled out. Other degenerative changes in the liver would require a microscope.

The point is, your dietary concerns with regards to fatty liver issues simply being a protein problem is not valid, not according to the most recent science involving fatty liver deposition in fish, and/or the diet of oscars, which was confirmed by the OP's examination. Diets excessive in lipids (FAT) are of far greater concern, as even at juvenile stages a young growing fish that requires higher levels of protein (50%) due to higher metabolic rates of young growing fish, cannot fully assimilate or utilize a diet that is excessive in fat. In cichlids, this has been proven by Ruth Francis-Floyd et al. (2004)

Massivore has a guaranteed analysis of crude fat (min) of 5%, and a "typical analysis" of 10%. With a crude protein content of 50%, and a crude fat content of 10%, IMHO it can be excessive in calories if feeding to an adult oscar, unless fed sparingly. This then becomes a case of operator error, which could result using any modern commercial food. I certainly don't endorse feeding Massivore (to anything) anymore than I endorse feeding any Hikari brand of food, but the point that I am attempting to make is that one needs to watch the FAT levels in food, and the total calories being offered to a fish daily/weekly, FAR more than a crude protein % on a label. Certainly Massivore is a high energy diet, best suited to high energy fish that require a high protein diet, but it would not typically kill an Oscar within a few months. I actually know an oscar owner that fed it for years to his O's, both wild and captive specimens, without issue. I assume this would be far less of a concern as the fish are juveniles, and more problematic as the fish matures. Unfortunately feeding fish (quantity or quality) is not an exact science.
 
With regards to your tap water, you might want to read this past discussion.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-wit-s-end-with-water-quality-any-suggestions

Orlando does not fair well .........

The City Beautiful’s Orlando Utilities Commission, which serves more than 414,500 people, ranked No. 81 in the list of 100 major metropolitan water providers in the U.S.

Other Florida cities and counties included were Odessa (No. 20), Manatee County (No. 38), Miami (No. 46), Pinellas (No. 57), Hillsborough County (No. 65), Tampa (No. 68), Cocoa (No. 86), Jacksonville (No. 91) and Pensacola, which ranked worst on the list at No. 100.

Orlando’s test showed that since 2004, seven chemicals had been found within the drinking water system that exceeded health risk limits. In addition, the test showed a total of 17 chemicals were found in the water system, more than double the national average of eight.

The water was tested by the group more than 1,500 times since 2004, said the report.
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Just something else to consider .......
 
Thank you for all of that info rd! I am now in Gainesville, but it's close and im sure t he water is of similar quality being a large city as well in fl

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No problem Austin, glad to help.




For your future Oscar, as I mentioned, veg matter very important. If it wont eat raw veg, a veg wafer or spirulina based pellet will do fine. Also try some fruit pieces, as VitC is very important, particularly in the growth spurt months of 2-9.
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And not to nit-pick, but most quality commercial foods already contain vegetable matter in their formulas, some foods (such as NLS) enough to feed exclusively to fish classified as strict herbivores. And yet carnivores will also do well on the same diet. One doesn't need to feed 3 or 4 different foods, and fresh fruit and vegetable to keep a fish thriving for many years in captivity. Clearly this has been proven by many people other than just myself. Even Massivore contains seaweed meal and spirulina. I am not saying that one can't supplement, just saying that is it not a nutritional requirement of keeping cichlids healthy long term. Sometimes on these forums certain opinions get bantered around as facts.

As far as vitamin C, I agree, a very special nutrient required for the health & well being of all fish, especially fish under any form of stress, but again this is easily supplemented via commercial pellets. In the case of oscars. The only study that I am aware of that involves vitamin c requirements/deficiencies of Astronotus ocellatus, reported that the lowest level of ascorbic acid tested in their study (25 mg kg–1 diet) was sufficient to prevent growth reduction and ascorbic acid deficiency signs (deformed opercula and jaws, haemorrhage in the eyes and fins, lordosis) in juveniles (29.2 g). Oscars without ascorbic acid supplementation took 25 weeks to start presenting clinical ascorbic acid deficiency signs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9772145

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/10/1745.long


So min requirement (in this study of juvenile fish) 25mg/kg, most commercial diets having several times that amount. The food that I feed all of my fish (NLS) contains a (minimum) of 500 mg/kg.



HTH
 
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