General perception of flowerhorns and owners

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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That ^ fish is one that...not so many years ago...would have been culled as an undesirable genetic abnormality. Now it's a fish to pay big bucks for and then brag about it on the internet.



And if you need proof, just look at this video. He doesn't title it "Look at this beautiful fish!" or "Check out my new flowerhorn"...no, instead it's "Look how much money I spent! I must be cool!!!!"

Once humans developed technology that made it possible for pretty much everybody to have a long and relatively healthy life...well, that was the end of human evolution. No more "survival of the fittest" or natural selection; now it seems to be survival of the loudest, or maybe the most insecure...and some of us seem to feel that it isn't sufficient that our own species has advanced to this questionably desirable condition. We apparently have to drag our companion animals down the hole with us as we go.

Dang...I love a good argument before I even have my morning coffee. :)
LOL that fish has a built in floatation device. He'll never have swim bladder disorder, that's for sure.
 

jjohnwm

Sausage Finger Spam Slayer
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For me I think there are already plenty enough naturally beautiful fish to not warrant these hybrids. Lots of inbreeding causes many defects both external and internal, I've never seen a flower live as long as say a Vieja or Ampilophus. I disagree with messing with animals genetics too much (although I own a few gold sevs), I dislike the idea of shaping the fish to your taste instead of appreciating how the fish naturally looks.
Also the marketing for the hybrid market is ridiculous, especially with foods. You see way overpriced foods with crappy ingredients, and they make like 4 varieties that you "need" to buy because one's for the head the other for color or whatever.
HERESY! BURN THE WITCH!!!!! :)
 
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FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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Well yeah a 3in fish will have a much smaller kok then a fully mature one for sure. Yours honestly didn't change much other then a bit more volume to it's body and defining the colors a bit more. My girl when she was roughly 3in she almost had a full marble on her head, sucks I don't have a pic of her at that size to show a before and after.

But yeah I was mainly showing what I thought was appropriate size for a "big kok" on a fish. Seems like everyone has their own definition on what a "big kok" is. Some ppl, like me, think my female, as shown earlier, as having a big kok while some others may think of this here more as a big kok. This here was the father of the female in my other pic but he has what I would call a "ridiculously big kok". His kok was so big it caused him allot of swimming/feeding/self injury problems. Least to say even with that ridiculously big head of his he still wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, can't remember how many times he'd given himself a new scar on his head.

View attachment 1418838
Kind of hard to navigate when your head arrives before you do!
 

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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I agree; no breeder today would cull a fish like that. That's my whole point. We value these freakish creations for some inexplicable reason.

My statement regarding the difficulty these fish have was based entirely upon the comments of those who have kept them. For example, @Magnus_Band said:

"His kok was so big it caused him allot of swimming/feeding/self injury problems. Least to say even with that ridiculously big head of his he still wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, can't remember how many times he'd given himself a new scar on his head."

I've heard other local guys say similar things. A LFS in town has, or at least had before the virus scare, a flowerhorn that sure can't swim the way it should, and only seems able to eat off the bottom in a vertical position. Does that sound like a fish that would be described as "normal"?

I did read that thread regarding hormones and nuchal humps. I then commented that, to me, there really isn't any difference between creating these things strictly through manipulating genetics versus simply maintaining them under conditions that allow their own biology to run amok without consequences. Large nuchal humps? Sure...but is that fish in Bane's post merely large? In my opinion, it is extreme, beyond the normal range...i.e. not normal or natural. And the initial question in the thread was asking for opinions.

What if a fish in nature developed a kok like Bane's fish? Would it get through a day without problems? Nope...in my opinion...it wouldn't. But would that development happen? I doubt it; if hormonal swings caused the kok to begin to develop to that point...and if it then interfered with daily functions, stress and deconditioning would begin to take hold and hormonal secretion would change, allowing the kok to decrease in size. A self-regulating system to prevent the appearance of clumsy monsters.

Have you ever seen a deer with a monstrously heavy, unbalanced set of antlers? Probably not, because they are exceedingly rare, and tend not to survive, even though the growth occurs as a result of entirely natural processes. Want to see one? You need to go to a deer farm, where such un-naturally inefficient things are valued and nurtured and encouraged.

Don't like the 7-foot people idea? Okay, how about this: there are people in the world today who have not trimmed their finger- and toenails for years or decades, and have grown ridiculous twisted gnarled claws that are measured in feet rather than inches. Natural, you say? Well, yes...after all, our pre-human ancestors didn't get manis and pedis...but if they grew nails like that they wouldn't be able to walk, run, feed themselves or generally function. Of course, they wouldn't die as a result, because their nails would be naturally broken and worn down to usable...i.e. normal...lengths. Today's weirdos can get away with it because of their environment...their un-natural environment...which allows them to obtain food and to avoid becoming something else's food despite their self-induced handicap.

@RD , your interpretation...your opinion...is entirely valid and meaningful...but it isn't the only one. I'm just presenting mine, as requested in the original post. I acknowledge that it's just my opinion ...and worth exactly what you paid for it. :)
EVERYBODY SCATTER! GET OFF HIS LAWN!!! :nilly:
 

Ruturaj

Goliath Tigerfish
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Some of the fish I came across and I do have different perspective on them

This guy has abnormally large hump, wouldn't call it deformity but just abnormality, if someone likes one their choice

20200523_115405.jpg

For this one large hump also comes with huge belly, huge belly is certainly a deformity for me, these fish hardly live more than 2-3 years, most don't survive shipping

20200523_115342.jpg

I count this as beautiful, a fish with nice pearls, good color, nothing natural in there but nothing offensive

Screenshot_20200523-115200_Chrome.jpg
 
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Magnus_Bane

Redtail Catfish
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Some of the fish I came across and I do have different perspective on them

This guy has abnormally large hump, wouldn't call it deformity but just abnormality, if someone likes one their choice

View attachment 1418878

For this one large hump also comes with huge belly, huge belly is certainly a deformity for me, these fish hardly live more than 2-3 years, most don't survive shipping

View attachment 1418879

I count this as beautiful, a fish with nice pearls, good color, nothing natural in there but nothing offensive

View attachment 1418880
I'd agree that the bottom pic is definitely the best of the 3. It has the best shape and kok size without having the massive gut they tend to get. The top pick looks like he should be taking college classes to become a rocket scientist lol (big brain fish). But yeah I do agree tho that the kok size isn't a deformity, it's a hereditary trait from previous ancestors. A deformity would be counted as something that is unnatural to the species, an enlarged gut technically wouldn't be considered a deformity since allot of ZZ are bred specifically for a large gut and kok. Technically I have a deformed FH, she is the runt of the group from the same batch as the female I previously shown. The only reason I say she is a runt is because while her sister is already 8.5in at 2 years old, the runt is only 5in at the same age. Granted even being growth stunted, she still looks like a healthy FH, no massive kok or gut and has a nice long body with the traditional blue pearling. Personally I like the runt more then I like her big sister (Big Bertha). This is the FH I'm talking about btw. I think she's pretty good looking compaired to some other FH's out on the market atleast.

IMG_20200318_104909.jpg

IMG_20200318_104434.jpg

cameringo_20200318_103506.jpg
 
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Ruturaj

Goliath Tigerfish
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I'd agree that the bottom pic is definitely the best of the 3. It has the best shape and kok size without having the massive gut they tend to get. The top pick looks like he should be taking college classes to become a rocket scientist lol (big brain fish). But yeah I do agree tho that the kok size isn't a deformity, it's a hereditary trait from previous ancestors. A deformity would be counted as something that is unnatural to the species, an enlarged gut technically wouldn't be considered a deformity since allot of ZZ are bred specifically for a large gut and kok. Technically I have a deformed FH, she is the runt of the group from the same batch as the female I previously shown. The only reason I say she is a runt is because while her sister is already 8.5in at 2 years old, the runt is only 5in at the same age. Granted even being growth stunted, she still looks like a healthy FH, no massive kok or gut and has a nice long body with the traditional blue pearling. Personally I like the runt more then I like her big sister (Big Bertha). This is the FH I'm talking about btw. I think she's pretty good looking compaired to some other FH's out on the market atleast.

View attachment 1418926

View attachment 1418927

View attachment 1418928
Those zz aren't bred for large guts, it's just result of inbreeding to achieve large hump. When they were selectively breeding them to get larger hump the gut got ignored and become a dominant trait with large hump in certain lines.

Your fish is a good looking fish, runts grow slow but can still be a good looking fish as yours.
 
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FINWIN

Alligator Gar
MFK Member
Dec 21, 2018
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Washington DC
Some of the fish I came across and I do have different perspective on them

This guy has abnormally large hump, wouldn't call it deformity but just abnormality, if someone likes one their choice

View attachment 1418878

For this one large hump also comes with huge belly, huge belly is certainly a deformity for me, these fish hardly live more than 2-3 years, most don't survive shipping

View attachment 1418879

I count this as beautiful, a fish with nice pearls, good color, nothing natural in there but nothing offensive

View attachment 1418880
*Reaches for a pin.* ?
 
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Magnus_Bane

Redtail Catfish
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Those zz aren't bred for large guts, it's just result of inbreeding to achieve large hump. When they were selectively breeding them to get larger hump the gut got ignored and become a dominant trait with large hump in certain lines.

Your fish is a good looking fish, runts grow slow but can still be a good looking fish as yours.
Yeah she definitely has grown slow for sure. I just wonder if when I get a male to breed her if her size will be passed down to future generations or not. I'm hoping not, I'd rather have more full sized FH's rather then small ones. Same with her big sis, hoping she doesn't pass down that big kok to any offspring as well.
 
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