GIANT gouramis

[Yanbbrox]

I didn't claim anything, I hypothesized that it COULD BE a different sub species that's all. Your claim about the fish missing the cull is perfectly valid as well. Look at me arguing again by basically agreeing with your point

Call the post police, I missed out a word
"(I take the point about it could BE an unculled fish but I don't understand")

 

[Tequila]

I didn't claim anything, I hypothesized that it COULD BE a different sub species that's all. Your claim about the fish missing the cull is perfectly valid as well. Look at me arguing again by basically agreeing with your point

Call the post police, I missed out a word
Ehh: "I missed out a word". Is that English, shouldn't it be i left out a word, hmmm maybe it's just my poor American English
"(I take the point about it could BE an unculled fish but I don't understand")

Hmmmm, ok I'll agree with you on that if you can show me just one other or doesn't your hypothesis include more than one per sub-species.
C'mon Flying Fox has been searching for any info on his RTGG for years why hasn't he found anything about this sub-species then? O'yeah that's right it's a new one, my bad.

 

[Yanbbrox]

Hmmmm, ok I'll agree with you on that if you can show me just one other or doesn't your hypothesis include more than one per sub-species.
C'mon Flying Fox has been searching for any info on his RTGG for years why hasn't he found anything about this sub-species then? O'yeah that's right it's a new one, my bad.

Ok so you agree, if I can prove(I'm a big fan of diving) that there is another sub species of giant gourami that is not posted here, , there is another documented on the web as a true sub specie of GG, there are other references not just this one:

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/gourami/giant.php

So for the final time it 'COULD BE' a sub specie of a giant

Or

It could be a fish 'that missed the cull'

Or it could be something else, maybe a deformed 'breakfast' sausage that can swim

Sod it(True English for Tequila)

 

[Tequila]

Ok so you agree, if I can prove(I'm a big fan of diving) that there is another sub species of giant gourami that is not posted here, , there is another documented on the web as a true sub specie of GG, there are other references not just this one:

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/gourami/giant.php

So for the final time it 'COULD BE' a sub specie of a giant

Or

It could be a fish 'that missed the cull'

Or it could be something else, maybe a deformed 'breakfast' sausage that can swim

Sod it(True English for Tequila)

What heck does Sod it mean???? Oh wait you mean Said, ok I got it now, not used too that English accent of yours yet

So wheres the pictures and text describing this new sub-species-of-RTGG.
I googled blue headed RTGG and it comes up RTGG's that's it. So maybe you should be the first to publish an actical about it.


So now that we are agreeing, there nothing much more too talk about again huh.

Alrighty then back to the cave.

 

[Flying Fox]

Ummm. Ok. I think things are getting a little heated here. First, let me clarify some points. The up-turned pectorals are indeed deformed, but not from breeding. Way back, when I first introduced him to the forum, I mentioned that he was rescued from a green terror tank when he was only 3" from the LFS. He was badly beat up and ALL of his fins were chewed down. His pectorals were down to the stumps. Quite frankly, I am surprised anything grew back at all. So the fact that they are turned upwards is still better than not having any at all. Secondly, I hope the " in the hands of some small time Aquarist " comment was not directed at me, because ,wow, that is just a hurtful thing to say. Whether it's directed at me or to anyone. I admire and respect the dedication and knowledge participants have in these forums, but, there is no need to belittle someone you don't know who is asking for advice. Granted, I am new and you don't know me. So, let me just say I have been in the hobby for over 30 years and have done my fair share of breeding and keeping unique and rare fish in that time. I may not have the 10,000 gallon aquarium in place of a spare bedroom (like apparently some have), but I am not exactly a newbie either.

Having said that, other than his deformed pectorals, what other features indicate to you a hybrid? Yanbbrox has a point about what could possibly be bred with a GG to make a hybrid (whether for food or otherwise). Cichlids are far easier to make hybrids with because of the compatibilities of many species (as the aforementioned Parrot creation). Do you have a theory or see something that might indicate a hybrid and with what, possibly?

 

[piggy67]

I myself find it hard to believe that fish is mixed with a species of cichlid(im assuming we are talking about SA/CA). The breeding behaviors are so different that it's not possible. Male/Female cichlids both take part in the guarding of the eggs/fry where as only the males of gourami have parental responsibilities, also gourami build bubble nests where as cichlids build ground nests ie: in logs/decor or hollowed out depressions in substrates.
The female cichlid will want to gaurd the nest leading to her demise because as we know the males of gourami can become very aggressive to anything that comes to close to the nest, including the female..
That is a very unique GG, very unlike any i have ever seen but a cross with a species of cichlid is far fetched at best.

 

[Yanbbrox]

What heck does Sod it mean???? Oh wait you mean Said, ok I got it now, not used too that English accent of yours yet


I'll translate into American with an American quote:
South park, Cartman: 'screw you guys I'm going home'

So wheres the pictures and text describing this new sub-species-of-RTGG.
I googled blue headed RTGG and it comes up RTGG's that's it. So maybe you should be the first to publish an actical about it.

Bored now, I'm not a diver nor do I spend my time visiting far away countries looking for new fish and documenting them. I've already said that there is more than one reference, try google.


So now that we are agreeing, there nothing much more too talk about again huh.

Alrighty then back to the cave.

And me back into the pond.

Ummm. Ok. I think things are getting a little heated here. First, let me clarify some points. The up-turned pectorals are indeed deformed, but not from breeding. Way back, when I first introduced him to the forum, I mentioned that he was rescued from a green terror tank when he was only 3" from the LFS. He was badly beat up and ALL of his fins were chewed down. His pectorals were down to the stumps. Quite frankly, I am surprised anything grew back at all. So the fact that they are turned upwards is still better than not having any at all. Secondly, I hope the " in the hands of some small time Aquarist " comment was not directed at me, because ,wow, that is just a hurtful thing to say. Whether it's directed at me or to anyone. I admire and respect the dedication and knowledge participants have in these forums, but, there is no need to belittle someone you don't know who is asking for advice. Granted, I am new and you don't know me. So, let me just say I have been in the hobby for over 30 years and have done my fair share of breeding and keeping unique and rare fish in that time. I may not have the 10,000 gallon aquarium in place of a spare bedroom (like apparently some have), but I am not exactly a newbie either.

Having said that, other than his deformed pectorals, what other features indicate to you a hybrid? Yanbbrox has a point about what could possibly be bred with a GG to make a hybrid (whether for food or otherwise). Cichlids are far easier to make hybrids with because of the compatibilities of many species (as the aforementioned Parrot creation). Do you have a theory or see something that might indicate a hybrid and with what, possibly?

I'm pretty sure that comment wasn't aimed at yourself. Just try to ignore the bickering, master Tequila is still learning how to speak proper English, and quite often doesn't understand what I'm trying to say

Again, to me there is no way it can be a hybrid and I don't have a t 10k tank in my spare room, I don't even have a spare room

As always I'll keep reading and looking things up on these fish and if I come across something relating to this fish I'll quite happily share it.

I myself find it hard to believe that fish is mixed with a species of cichlid(im assuming we are talking about SA/CA). The breeding behaviors are so different that it's not possible. Male/Female cichlids both take part in the guarding of the eggs/fry where as only the males of gourami have parental responsibilities, also gourami build bubble nests where as cichlids build ground nests ie: in logs/decor or hollowed out depressions in substrates.
The female cichlid will want to gaurd the nest leading to her demise because as we know the males of gourami can become very aggressive to anything that comes to close to the nest, including the female..
That is a very unique GG, very unlike any i have ever seen but a cross with a species of cichlid is far fetched at best.

Good point piggy, I never even thought of the nesting thing until you brought it up.

So then we are down to gene splicing and DNA tampering to support the hybrid theory.

 

[Flying Fox]

Why aren't the big breeders banging down his/her door for this fish????

I guess the answer to that is because I only recently started parading him out in public. He has been living a sheltered life behind closed doors all these years. Maybe breeders or researchers will start beating down my door, now the word is out. One never knows........ I have no doubts about his RTGG origins. Possibly a RTGG sub-species, possibly a hybrid (again, with what is the ???) but definitely RTGG is his main DNA make-up. I wonder if there is a research facility somewhere that specialize in Ichthyology Taxonomy that I could send a picture to? Maybe there is a strain of RTGG out there that never made it past a footnote on a research paper.

 

[Yanbbrox]

I guess the answer to that is because I only recently started parading him out in public. He has been living a sheltered life behind closed doors all these years. Maybe breeders or researchers will start beating down my door, now the word is out. One never knows........ I have no doubts about his RTGG origins. Possibly a RTGG sub-species, possibly a hybrid (again, with what is the ???) but definitely RTGG is his main DNA make-up. I wonder if there is a research facility somewhere that specialize in Ichthyology Taxonomy that I could send a picture to? Maybe there is a strain of RTGG out there that never made it past a footnote on a research paper.

I was joking about DNA splicing but for course fishing(fishing) over here there are many cases of hybridization where a potentially record catch gets disputed and rejected due to unproved possibilities of being a hybrid.

Crucian carp and Roach are prime examples and for these if you do not want to kill the fish a scale can be taken and a DNA sample done to prove or not prove the origin of the fish. This could be the best way of finding out the true nature behind your mystery GG.

Where to contact someone who could help is another story. The only person who may know someone on here is one of the Mods called zoodiver(who actually dives in zoos for a living).

 

[Tequila]

Ummm. Ok. I think things are getting a little heated here. First, let me clarify some points. The up-turned pectorals are indeed deformed, but not from breeding. Way back, when I first introduced him to the forum, I mentioned that he was rescued from a green terror tank when he was only 3" from the LFS. He was badly beat up and ALL of his fins were chewed down. His pectorals were down to the stumps. Quite frankly, I am surprised anything grew back at all. So the fact that they are turned upwards is still better than not having any at all. Secondly, I hope the " in the hands of some small time Aquarist " comment was not directed at me, because ,wow, that is just a hurtful thing to say. Whether it's directed at me or to anyone. OMG!! It was a general statement/descriptive word at best, not aimed towards anyone other than possibly myself! I'm sure there are far more people here that have kept far more fish for longer periods of time than would ever want too.

If I where to say anything directed towards you it would the dam white type is making me nutz! I admire and respect the dedication and knowledge participants have in these forums, but, there is no need to belittle someone you don't know who is asking for advice.

It's my belief that you and you alone are the only person here belittling yourself by suggesting that I or someone would be trying to belittle you. I have very little time to devote to just hanging out here anymore. I usually pop in read abit an go on to the next thread. I don't have the time to post any longer to the Guess the reptile thread anymore so I just guess and pass the post on too the next person. Sometimes I don't get in here for so long that I've received emails/PM asking me to reply.

Granted, I am new and you don't know me. So, let me just say I have been in the hobby for over 30 years and have done my fair share of breeding and keeping unique and rare fish in that time. I may not have the 10,000 gallon aquarium in place of a spare bedroom (like apparently some have), but I am not exactly a newbie either. Newbie or Ol'fart, thus is the reason I also posted an apology at the end of the posts just in case someone, anyone felt hurt by anything i said. But as I recall you and others asked for my opion.


Having said that, other than his deformed pectorals, what other features indicate to you a hybrid? Yanbbrox has a point about what could possibly be bred with a GG to make a hybrid (whether for food or otherwise). Cichlids are far easier to make hybrids with because of the compatibilities of many species (as the aforementioned Parrot creation). Do you have a theory or see something that might indicate a hybrid and with what, possibly?

And I can see that the use of the word Hybrid was the wrong word too use. I was thinking more along the lines of a abnormal fish that should (pls don't flip out on me that I used the word should) have been culled out.

I myself find it hard to believe that fish is mixed with a species of cichlid(im assuming we are talking about SA/CA). The breeding behaviors are so different that it's not possible. Male/Female cichlids both take part in the guarding of the eggs/fry where as only the males of gourami have parental responsibilities, also gourami build bubble nests where as cichlids build ground nests ie: in logs/decor or hollowed out depressions in substrates.
The female cichlid will want to gaurd the nest leading to her demise because as we know the males of gourami can become very aggressive to anything that comes to close to the nest, including the female..
That is a very unique GG, very unlike any i have ever seen but a cross with a species of cichlid is far fetched at best.

Just too let you know fish don't have too have the same breeding/mating habits in order to try and cross breed them though it would help. Sometimes the fish aren't really involved in the process at all, just the sperm and eggs are. Or as in someone in Japan has figure out removing the sex cells of Mackle and replacing them with Bluefin Tuna sex cells that when the Mackle mated they produced fertilized Bluefin Tuna eggs.

I guess the answer to that is because I only recently started parading him out in public. He has been living a sheltered life behind closed doors all these years. Maybe breeders or researchers will start beating down my door, now the word is out. One never knows........ I have no doubts about his RTGG origins. Possibly a RTGG sub-species, possibly a hybrid (again, with what is the ???) but definitely RTGG is his main DNA make-up. I wonder if there is a research facility somewhere that specialize in Ichthyology Taxonomy that I could send a picture to? Maybe there is a strain of RTGG out there that never made it past a footnote on a research paper.

Ok again my mistake I was under the impression that you've been trying to figure this fishes background out for a while I that posted pics of it else where other than here. And I find it difficult to believe that: "there is a strain of RTGG out there that never made it past a footnote on a research paper" but that's just me and how i feel about the whole Aqurium business as a whole.

AS for the " Ummm. Ok. I think things are getting a little heated here". Oh C'mon this is just the normal run of the mill berking between myself and that guy from the other side of the pond. I guess you haven't read much through the thread either we used too do this alot but I don't have the luxury of the free time that he does anymore I work for a living, hedigs holes.

Sorry that I didn't say what you wanted to hear or how you wanted to hear it. But that's how we felt about it.