Giving salt a try!!
- Thread starter Sauteman
- Start date
Alotta ppl throw "must do or must use" around all the time, is it warranted, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Education and research will greatly help cut thru the advice. RO/DI water is distilled or 99.8% pure h20. At 99.8% pure there will be basically nothing but inert molecules bonded with the H20. Tap + well water are far from pure. Theres tons of stuff bonded to it, some good, some bad, some deadly. Untreated water can contain - Ammonia, Nitrate, Chlorine, Chloramine, Silicates, and Phosphate. Along with excessive stuff like dissolved protiens, zinc, iron, sodium, and copper. It may very well also contain chemicals from leaching like Snap shot, Round-up, Tordon, 24D, to name a few from improper agricultural and ornimental landscape use. Fish can handle most of this stuff - corals and inverts not so much. Either or they are present and everytime you add tapwater the most harmful will need to be removed via Dechlorinators + Carbon. The rest of the stuff with fish only and basic florecent lighting will lead to diatoms. The diatoms will eat phosphates, nitrates, silicates, and excess trace metals in the water. These diatoms flourish under not so intense lighting. So long as the nasties are present they will live and spread. Add more intense lighting like T5HO or metal haliade lighting you now have an algae breeding ground. The intense light coupled with the nasties in the water will allow for more obnoxious strains of algae to bloom, photosynthisis, and spread.
When you get into hard corals things like phosphates inhibit their ability to process calcium, that is a very bad thing. Phos occurs naturally, it's part of decomposion so high levels Nitrates and Dissolved protiens generally walk hand and hand with high levels of phosphates as they are created thru organic breakdown. Phos in tapwater generally comes in all kinds a ways, mostly tho from the Ag industry. It with nitrogen, excellerates Floras (corn,grass,trees) growth rate, it's excessive use is also destroying our estuaries and reefs. PO4 builds inside of aquariums and with reefs needs to be removed. If you use tapwater Po4 will always be present as it's added via w/c's and top off - Hence RO/DI waterchanges/top offs. The fun dosen't stop there, as you advance in the hobby you'll come to realize that your salwater reef aquarium generates it's own nasties that need to be removed. Also adding elements that are used by the life within' to insure stability.
In the USA tapwater cannot contain what is called Harmful levels Nitrate - enufff nitrate to make one sick if they drink 5 gal of water a day for 100 years. At 8 ppm the EPA shuts the station down, most never reach 5ppm. However nitrate also builds within the tank as it is natrually occring. With Fish you need to moniter nitrate levlels as it can lead to stunting aka nitrate poisoning in excess. If you have alotta fish or messy eating carnivours, nitrates can be a real health issue. Generally this is controled thru tank maturity and manual water changes. When using Tapwater w/ say Nitrates @ 4 ppm and tank readings of 40 ppm doing 10% weekly w/c's your removing 4 ppm then adding 4 right back. Ideally you'd like them to be below 20ppm for fish. This is one reason why RO/DI is used for fish only - another method is, stock less and feed less (LNS-low nutrient systems). Best method is add slowly to your aquarium RO/DI or not, don't let the nitrates build faster then the BB can convert.
When you get into hard corals things like phosphates inhibit their ability to process calcium, that is a very bad thing. Phos occurs naturally, it's part of decomposion so high levels Nitrates and Dissolved protiens generally walk hand and hand with high levels of phosphates as they are created thru organic breakdown. Phos in tapwater generally comes in all kinds a ways, mostly tho from the Ag industry. It with nitrogen, excellerates Floras (corn,grass,trees) growth rate, it's excessive use is also destroying our estuaries and reefs. PO4 builds inside of aquariums and with reefs needs to be removed. If you use tapwater Po4 will always be present as it's added via w/c's and top off - Hence RO/DI waterchanges/top offs. The fun dosen't stop there, as you advance in the hobby you'll come to realize that your salwater reef aquarium generates it's own nasties that need to be removed. Also adding elements that are used by the life within' to insure stability.
In the USA tapwater cannot contain what is called Harmful levels Nitrate - enufff nitrate to make one sick if they drink 5 gal of water a day for 100 years. At 8 ppm the EPA shuts the station down, most never reach 5ppm. However nitrate also builds within the tank as it is natrually occring. With Fish you need to moniter nitrate levlels as it can lead to stunting aka nitrate poisoning in excess. If you have alotta fish or messy eating carnivours, nitrates can be a real health issue. Generally this is controled thru tank maturity and manual water changes. When using Tapwater w/ say Nitrates @ 4 ppm and tank readings of 40 ppm doing 10% weekly w/c's your removing 4 ppm then adding 4 right back. Ideally you'd like them to be below 20ppm for fish. This is one reason why RO/DI is used for fish only - another method is, stock less and feed less (LNS-low nutrient systems). Best method is add slowly to your aquarium RO/DI or not, don't let the nitrates build faster then the BB can convert.
I agree, that's why I said you can use tap water if done correctly. Everyones tap water is different as far as what level of phosphates and chemicals that are present. If you use a quality dechlorinator, chlorine, chloramines and other harmful metals are detoxified. Granted this stuff isn't removed removed. Also if you can use phosban, rowaphos or other phosphate removers. I don't use it but I also here great things about Seachem Purigen as far as removing nitrates goes if that is a problem. I also here it does remove some trace elements but it's supposed to be minimal but who knows how much it actually removes. Also a lot of salt mixes claim to do the same thing that water conditioners claim to do. I still use water conditioner even though instant ocean reef crystals claim to detoxify tap water. I agree 100% that it's better to use RODI water. My only point is that it's not a MUST.. I love the fact that more people are trying SW on this forum. I don't want to see them turn away because they feel like they have to buy all this stuff when in all reality they don't. I'm in no way telling them that tap water is the way to go and RODI is not. I'm just saying that they still can enjoy the hobby with success and not have a RODI sytem. I plan on buying an RODI once I move back to the US, so Im not against it. I just want people who may not want to invest a ton of money or who can't afford to invest a ton of money, to still know that they can try SW at a decent cost. It just seems like a lot people on here that have been in SW for awhile are saying that you have to do this and must buy this. I admit that most of the people that have been doing it for a long time know a lot more about the hobby than me, Im still fairly new to SW. When Im brand new to a hobby I usually want to get my feet wet and test the waters to see if it's something i'm going to stick with. So for me it doesn't make sense to drop a few grand until I know it's something I really like. So for those people who are just trying to see if it's something they might want to try, I see nothing wrong with trying it out at a low cost. As long as they are still keeping their fish and other inhabitants health in mind.
I try not to sway ppl one way or the other, just pass along what I've learned. I've used treated tapwater in my salty for about a year now. I've learned alot by doing so which I believe will help as I move forward. Shortly an RO/DI unit will be installed in our house, it is by far a safer and easier way to help control water quality. A year ago I didn't believe it but the hands on experience of gettin' the nasties outta the tank has made me a true believer. I'm not much on monkey see monkey do, I partial to true understanding. RO/DI is far from an end all cure tho, when it comes to hard corals theres much more to understand about controlling cal.+mag. to dial in Alk.
Great article(this goes above and beyond post) here. Wow you put some time into this one.
I will say that I don't think RODI is absolutely necessary, but man does it make a very big difference. Now that I have started using it, I will never go back. I have noticed considerably less algae and lower nitrate leaving since switching.
One correction, if you do a 10% water change with tap water that has 4ppm water and the tank has 40 ppm water, you are removing 40ppm still not 4 ppm. The difference being...
Before WC:
100% x 40ppm= 40 ppm nitrates
After water change:
90% x 40ppm
10% x 4ppm
=36.4ppm nitrates
After water change with RODI:
90% x 40ppm
10% x 0ppm
=36ppm nitrates
So your nitrates do go down some, not stay the same. The difference of using RODI doesn't look that great, but the benefits grow exponentially when you are doing 10% weekly water changes over time.
Now if I sell my 75 gallon and go with this tank... what do I do step by step for when the tank gets here and the fish?
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/pet/3088668428.html
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/pet/3088668428.html
Getting that one up to par is going to take some time & will cost a decent bit; it seems like more work & money than it's worth. I would still start from scratch if I were you.
So you'd start over from scratch? I don't see what you get as being worth that price which is why I ask.
