Grain free, All fish based protien dog food, for big fish?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
aquaculture;4407495; said:
Most of my fishes food comes from walmart,local feed store, and my local waterways caught and processed by me.

Wet Whiskers I hope my food list gives yah an idea for cheap food supply.

I just went to the market and had to explain to the new guy why I was buying pound after pound of fish and wiping them out. Their face is always hilarious....:ROFL: (We just moved. The old guys always wanted the update on how the fish were doing...) Anyways, they had a massive sale on flounder, tilapia, seafood mix (muscles, clams, octopus, shrimp, squid, etc.), shrimp, and catfish chunks. Yes, I fed catfish chunks. At first I was like, no that's wrong. Then I figured my TSN had already demonstrated that she loves her catfish by shredding my ID. So, I bought it, and didn't feel bad for a moment.

I just am always looking for HEALTHY, cheap options.
 
pcfriedrich;4407285; said:
looking at the different formulas, though, they do recomend for the high energy carnivore (largemouth bass, salmon, steelhead, and trout) a low carbohydrate formula of 48% protein and 18% fat. not all fish need 5% fat. That said, the catfish formula is only 7% fat.,

That's because commercial fish foods are for quick growth and to put on weight to produce meat for human consumption. Way different than what we're looking for to sustain aquarium fish long term. We want a long life span and steady growth, not just quick growth and a large meat content.
 
That's because commercial fish foods are for quick growth and to put on weight to produce meat for human consumption. Way different than what we're looking for to sustain aquarium fish long term. We want a long life span and steady growth, not just quick growth and a large meat content.

Exactly. And I also don't consider the vast majority of catfish species to be "high energy carnivores". More like low energy opportunistic feeders, with some species leaning more to the carnivorous side of the equation.

Crude Fat (min.): 20.00%

Way too high for any species of tropical fish, including catfish, so I would highly recommend feeding this food very sparingly. (if at all) Monitoring how your fish appear in your tank won't give you an inside view of fat deposition around their liver. There are studies involving carnivorous species fed high fat (17%) diets, which resulted in excess liver deposition, which if fed over a prolonged period would result in necrosis of the liver.

If you are rinsing & soaking the food, you are also losing the vast majority of the water soluble vitamins contained in the food. With only 50mg/kg of vitamin c, you don't have a lot to be wasting to begin with.


Also, I think there's a lot of confusion with regards to "grain free" diets.
Fish aren't dogs, most species of fish, and certainly most catfish, can assimilate a certain percentage of carbohydrate with no problem, and whether those carbs originate from grain (such as wheat) or potatoes, will make zero difference to your fish. Catfish in general can assimilate more carbs than many species, and unless low cost, difficult to digest, carbs are being utilized there is no major health difference between a grain based carb, and any other form. In fish food carbs/starch are used as binding agents, and as a cheap form of energy. With a (min) 20% crude fat content, and a 19.2% carbohydrate content, all of the excess has to end up somewhere - it doesn't simply get excreted by the fish, such as the case with excess amino acids. (protein) Carbs that aren't utilized by a fish immediately, eventually also get stored as fat.

This dog food may be a cheap alternative, but I certainly wouldn't consider it a healthy alternative, at least not for a fish.

IMO your best bet would be to stick with the 10mm NLS, and supplement with frozen food from your local market. Your fish will be getting the best of both worlds, sans the high fat content.

HTH

 
RD.;4408733; said:
Exactly. And I also don't consider the vast majority of catfish species to be "high energy carnivores". More like low energy opportunistic feeders, with some species leaning more to the carnivorous side of the equation.​

Crude Fat (min.): 20.00%

Way too high for any species of tropical fish, including catfish, so I would highly recommend feeding this food very sparingly. (if at all) Monitoring how your fish appear in your tank won't give you an inside view of fat deposition around their liver. There are studies involving carnivorous species fed high fat (17%) diets, which resulted in excess liver deposition, which if fed over a prolonged period would result in necrosis of the liver.​

If you are rinsing & soaking the food, you are also losing the vast majority of the water soluble vitamins contained in the food. With only 50mg/kg of vitamin c, you don't have a lot to be wasting to begin with.​


Also, I think there's a lot of confusion with regards to "grain free" diets.
Fish aren't dogs, most species of fish, and certainly most catfish, can assimilate a certain percentage of carbohydrate with no problem, and whether those carbs originate from grain (such as wheat) or potatoes, will make zero difference to your fish. Catfish in general can assimilate more carbs than many species, and unless low cost, difficult to digest, carbs are being utilized there is no major health difference between a grain based carb, and any other form. In fish food carbs/starch are used as binding agents, and as a cheap form of energy. With a (min) 20% crude fat content, and a 19.2% carbohydrate content, all of the excess has to end up somewhere - it doesn't simply get excreted by the fish, such as the case with excess amino acids. (protein) Carbs that aren't utilized by a fish immediately, eventually also get stored as fat.​

This dog food may be a cheap alternative, but I certainly wouldn't consider it a healthy alternative, at least not for a fish.​

IMO your best bet would be to stick with the 10mm NLS, and supplement with frozen food from your local market. Your fish will be getting the best of both worlds, sans the high fat content.​

HTH​

You've pretty much summed up my worries about feeding it very well. I was really hoping someone would have a low calorie version of it out there to give me a heads up on. Apparently, that's so far a no go. Can't seem to find light, grain free, fish based dog food. Oh well. I did find frozen mahi mahi chunks on sale for $2.99 the other day though, so the fish has all eating well. :grinno:
 
RD.;4408733; said:
Exactly. And I also don't consider the vast majority of catfish species to be "high energy carnivores". More like low energy opportunistic feeders, with some species leaning more to the carnivorous side of the equation.​


Well, I said that the higher fat formulas were intended for the 'high energy carnivore'. In fact, I quoted the 'largemouth bass, salmon, trout, and steelhead formulas'. I said the catfish formula was only 7% fat.

That commercial fish food is no worse for your fish than the top fin, wardleys, tetra, or other budget fish foods you find. actually, its better. like I said before, its got spirulina listed in the ingredients. Most hikari formulas don't even have spirulina. If I was deciding between commercial fish food and dog food, I'd go with the commercial fish food. feathers and all.

That said, I only have a few fish, so even the most expensive fish foods are still in my personal budget.
 
I said the catfish formula was only 7% fat.

7% crude fat would be the minimum guaranteed percentage, with the typical crude fat content being closer to 10%. A crude fat content of 8-10% is still geared for quick growth, at least with catfish.

Either way, I agree with you that I would choose a quality commercial fish feed over a commercial dog food, no argument there.
 
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