Grain free, All fish based protien dog food, for big fish?

[mrblah]

interesting comments here. definitely going to investigate these food alternatives more at the store...

 

[Wet Whiskers]

7% crude fat would be the minimum guaranteed percentage, with the typical crude fat content being closer to 10%. A crude fat content of 8-10% is still geared for quick growth, at least with catfish.

Either way, I agree with you that I would choose a quality commercial fish feed over a commercial dog food, no argument there.

I have yet to find what I would consider a "quality commercial fish feed". So far the only things I've been happy with is Hikari and I'm currently testing out NLS. I'm toying with a bunch of ideas right now, but just haven't found any good substitutes to foods that are most likely have gigantic margins.

 

[RD.]

I guess that would depend on what your definition of quality is?

 

[Wet Whiskers]

I guess that would depend on what your definition of quality is?

hydrolyzed feather meal isn't my idea of quality....

 

[RD.]

Fair enough, yet you are currently supporting a company that uses corn flakes, dried bakery products, and MSG in some of their various formulas.

 

[Wet Whiskers]

Fair enough, yet you are currently supporting a company that uses corn flakes, dried bakery products, and MSG in some of their various formulas.

I assume you are referring to Hikari or NLS? I have yet to find something I'm 100% satidfied with btw. I have thought about making my own food due to the cost of prepackaged foods and the low quality that I feel goes into these compared to the high prices they are demanding.

 

[RD.]

That would be door #1.

New Life would never use ingredients such as those in any of their food.

 

[Wet Whiskers]

That would be door #1.

New Life would never use ingredients such as those in any of their food.

I figured you were referring to Hikari. I know they have been really horrible about responding to questions about what makes up their starches. It's made me question them tremendously. I think its one of the main reasons I'm looking for new food, and not just the insane costs.

 

[RD.]

Why anyone would pay twice the going price of any other premium food is beyond me. When you get into the larger container sizes, NLS costs approx half that of Hikari, and IMHO offers far more bang for your buck nutrition wise. (even before the cost difference)

And yes, I recently asked the fine folks at Hikari what the mystery "starch" in their Massivore food consisted of, and they refused to tell me. Others have asked the same question, and received the same response. Hmmmmm.

I recently came across a discussion on another forum where a member was upset about a change in Hikari's Betta Bio Gold formula. Apparently sometime last year Hikari decided to change the formula, by adding additional wheat to the formula, enough to now make wheat flour the main ingredient. According to this member MSG had also now been added to their new labels.

Keep in mind that Betta splendens are also classified as carnivores, and require the same amount of high quality protein as any "monster" carnivorous species, only in smaller portions. (obviously) This member contacted Hikari USA, who told her that no change had taken place. According to this member they went so far as to state:

"The first ingredient remains fish meal as it always has. Please check the package and remember you cannot always believe everything you read on the internet."

She never read this on the interent, she was reading the info directly from her Hikari Betta Bio Gold label.

And ....

Please remember that Hikari has been making aquatic diets for many decades and is the only fish food maker who actually breeds and sells live fish.

I guess they didn't realize that other fish food manufacturers (such as New Life International) have also been breeding & selling live fish for decades.

After further review of her complaint they forwarded the enquiry to Quality Control, and later responded to her with the following.

"Clare - please understand we are just customer service staff and cannot comment on packaging issues, formulations or any other changes and what the impact of these would be without having our QC, formulation and lab staff comment before hand. They are in a much better position (having significantly more information available to them from research work, formulation testing and production records) to provide information that would be useful to any hobbyist with a specific question like yours. All of these divisions are in Japan which requires that we forward the information overnight and usually have an answer the next evening.

Our concern here is that if there is an error on the package, we have a much larger issue to resolve and we want to know up front what we are dealing with so we can properly handle the situation with any customer, especially an informed one like you. We are normally notified of any change to an ingredient panel along with the impact of the change and there has been none on this product so I apologize if you feel we are not being as responsive as you feel we should. All the packages being used in the office show fish meal first and the best before date you provided did not match anything we normally use, so our first answer was an assumption that someone posted something incorrectly on a site, which happens more often than any of us would like.

It appears we should have waited to verify all the information with Japan before we commented on your email to avoid providing information that did not match the package you had in your hand or made us appear uncaring. For this we sincerely apologize. We have forwarded all your information to Japan and they have asked us to allow them to answer your email directly. You should be hearing from them within the next 24 hours. If in the mean time we can assist you further, please contact us at your convenience. We appreciate you taking the time to alert us to this issue and your patience so we can collect all the information and answer your question accurately."

At this point the member received the following pdf document from Keita Harada from Kyorin's Yamazaki Research Institute in Japan.

http://www.ida-may.com/other/hikari.pdf


When Mr. Harada states "the fish meal quality is getting more & more unstable due to the global climate fluctuation" .... I can only assume that he is referring to the cost of high quality fish meal being unstable, as fish meal has definitely seen a significant price hike over this past year.

Fish meal has become more expensive than ever, it's inclusion rate in this Hikari formula (and perhaps others?) has been reduced, and the explanation from the spokesperson from Hikari's research institute in Japan is ........ ?


I honestly couldn't make stuff like this up if I tried.

 

[Wet Whiskers]

Why anyone would pay twice the going price of any other premium food is beyond me. When you get into the larger container sizes, NLS costs approx half that of Hikari, and IMHO offers far more bang for your buck nutrition wise. (even before the cost difference)

And yes, I recently asked the fine folks at Hikari what the mystery "starch" in their Massivore food consisted of, and they refused to tell me. Others have asked the same question, and received the same response. Hmmmmm.

I recently came across a discussion on another forum where a member was upset about a change in Hikari's Betta Bio Gold formula. Apparently sometime last year Hikari decided to change the formula, by adding additional wheat to the formula, enough to now make wheat flour the main ingredient. According to this member MSG had also now been added to their new labels.

Keep in mind that Betta splendens are also classified as carnivores, and require the same amount of high quality protein as any "monster" carnivorous species, only in smaller portions. (obviously) This member contacted Hikari USA, who told her that no change had taken place. According to this member they went so far as to state:



She never read this on the interent, she was reading the info directly from her Hikari Betta Bio Gold label.

And ....



I guess they didn't realize that other fish food manufacturers (such as New Life International) have also been breeding & selling live fish for decades.

After further review of her complaint they forwarded the enquiry to Quality Control, and later responded to her with the following.






At this point the member received the following pdf document from Keita Harada from Kyorin's Yamazaki Research Institute in Japan.

http://www.ida-may.com/other/hikari.pdf


When Mr. Harada states "the fish meal quality is getting more & more unstable due to the global climate fluctuation" .... I can only assume that he is referring to the cost of high quality fish meal being unstable, as fish meal has definitely seen a significant price hike over this past year.

Fish meal has become more expensive than ever, it's inclusion rate in this Hikari formula (and perhaps others?) has been reduced, and the explanation from the spokesperson from Hikari's research institute in Japan is ........ ?


I honestly couldn't make stuff like this up if I tried.

I've been reading a lot of stuff like this. I have just started feeding the NLS mega fish formula. Most of the fish love it, but have a couple fish that are not to keen on it yet. I'm sure they are just not used to it and will switch over in time, but till then I am mixing it. I plan to start trying more of NLS's line. The one thing I need and am not really seeing is a good substitute for the algae waffers.