I see some fish labeled as Gymnogeophagus cf. meridionalis 'Sequeira' (Rapps) and G.n.sp."Paso Pache II" (ex-meridionalis) (fish farm). Are these similar fish and, if so, are they similar to the Gymnogeophagus meridionalis on CRC? Just trying to get a handle on the fish in general. Anyone with experince with these please share.
Gymnogeophagus meridionalis?
- Thread starter darthodo
- Start date
What are you asking David? If you are referring to the general G. meridionalis in the hobby, they most likely are not. Resent work on the Rhabdotus groups has shown that most of the fish that were considered meridionalis are not thus the label "ex-meridionalis" that Felipe uses on all the fish he sells. Ken
I'm trying to figure out if these fish that have the name meridionalis (whether ex-meridionalis or cf. meridionalis) are similar fish in general. The pictures I have seen all have them looking very colorful, which is why I contacted you about them. I'm thinking these are all very similar fish along the same theme, even though they are likely caught from different locales. The designation meridionalis leads me to believe they are similar fish, regardless of how the name is presented. I just want to understand.
Maybe I should ask what the "ex-" means and what the "cf." means. We use species designations like "pv." (pathovar), "fsp." (formed species), and "subsp." (sub-species) to more specifically describe a certain variant of a particular species.
Maybe I should ask what the "ex-" means and what the "cf." means. We use species designations like "pv." (pathovar), "fsp." (formed species), and "subsp." (sub-species) to more specifically describe a certain variant of a particular species.
I don't know if the cf. and ex mean the same thing but I do have a site where you can see where all the Rhabdotus group comes from http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_other_fishes.php
I hope this helps!!!
I hope this helps!!!
y understandibng is until recently all the Rhabdotus group with the red accents on the bottom and top of the tail were considered meridionalis, Kulander did some work on the rhabdotus group and restricted meridionalis to the type local in southern Brazil and all the other similar fish in Uruguay as ex-meridionalis. They most likely are comprised of a number of similar but different species so collection locations should be kept separate. cf refers to similar too, i.e. G. sp. cf meridionalis would be a similar but most likely different species. Ken
From what I get from the site is they are all G. rhabdotus. All the locations they refer to are slight differences in colorations or patterns, but I dont think it is enough to make different species. I dont think the genetic work has been done to distinguish them as different species either, so they are all G. rhabdotus but they just have slightly different color patterns. I hope this makes sense!
The rhabdotus group has a number of species within it, in the field they are very easy to tell apart, it consist of all the smaller substraint spawning species from southern Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, Rhabdotus and ex meridionalis are very diffterent fish in color and shape and definently different species. There are also fish like G. sp high dorsal which don't fall in ethier group, G. setequida from Argentina also is on the Rhabdotus group and is a discribed species. I would guess once someone does the work on the group a dozen or more species will be discribed. I can tell these apart, can't you? Ken
![27[1].jpg](https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/data/attachments/303/303626-396cff0d844c92174bdf975c5d6e63ee.jpg?hash=OWz_DYRMkh "27[1].jpg")
I really think its going to take genetic work to distiguish whether they are separate species or not. Though you can see the differences between them it doesnt always mean they are separate species. For example, here in CA we have two rockfish Sebastes chrysomelas (Black and Yellow) and Sebastes carnatus (Golfer) that look different. Their coloration patterns are different and they live in different zones in the kelp bed, BUT recent genetic work has shown that there is no difference genetically between the two. So I guess my point is just because they look kinda different doesnt mean they are separate species.
But I do see your side, freshwater species do tend to speciate quickly because of allopatric speciation. The Rhabdotus is spread out in many different countries and it looks like they could have isolated populations, thus resulting in separate species!
Sooo.... I guess we'll see!!! Either way this is interesting to me!!!
But I do see your side, freshwater species do tend to speciate quickly because of allopatric speciation. The Rhabdotus is spread out in many different countries and it looks like they could have isolated populations, thus resulting in separate species!
Sooo.... I guess we'll see!!! Either way this is interesting to me!!!
Ken's right on.
He uses the descriptions from Felipe Cantera's site (http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_other_fishes.php), which are the best thing out there...for Uruguay.
I think the most important thing is to identify the collection location of the fish. The rest will be worked out by scientists.
What's disturbing is the number of Gymnogeos on the market (not from Ken or Jeff, of course) that have lost the collection location along the way.
He uses the descriptions from Felipe Cantera's site (http://www.aqvaterra.com/cichlids_other_fishes.php), which are the best thing out there...for Uruguay.
I think the most important thing is to identify the collection location of the fish. The rest will be worked out by scientists.
What's disturbing is the number of Gymnogeos on the market (not from Ken or Jeff, of course) that have lost the collection location along the way.