habitat enrichment for oscars

[neutrino]

Yes, fish can get 'depressed' in their own way, more noticeable in some species than others. Do they look at old pictures or cry and watch old movies or experience the thoughts or feelings of a depressed human? Not exactly, but some will sulk, not eat much, hang in one spot etc. as obvious 'depression like' behaviors differing from normal. Oddly enough, one study of 'depression' in fish (related to stress and stress hormones) with abnormal chemistry found they responded to antidepressants like prozac -- link

If you're keeping up with the science, there are some antiquated assumptions about fish perception and intelligence we should probably put behind us. Some are still up in the air, as one study concludes one thing and another study something else (do fish feel pain?) but other things appear pretty well antiquated (3 second memory). No, they're not sitting in their tanks contemplating relativity or quantum physics or the meaning of life, but they're not exactly unconscious, mindless robots operating only on autopilot either.

 

[kzimmerman]

Thank you neutrino! Validated observations through scientific study is very important to us as aquarists, and all too often people fall into untruths and outdated assumptions that are detrimental to our charges. Not necessarily in this case, but I've learned to not take anything without validation.

 

[neutrino]

Here's a few more... study of brain activity in a cichlid fish in response to social situations... another study of cichlids (scroll down page to second article with cichlid photo)... study of endorphins/receptors in fish nervous system...

From what I've read, what any of this means in terms of fish 'consciousness' is still being studied and debated. So what a 'depressed' fish is actually 'thinking' or feeling might be open to interpretation (cichlids don't have a neocortex from what I've read), but behavior/responses like depression or reward response (happiness?) in fish apparently involves some of the same biochemistry as in what we think of as higher animals. So, my take is if a fish acts 'depressed' or acts 'happier' in one tank than another, I wouldn't compare it to human experience or try to interpret what the experience means for a fish, but I don't discount the behaviors as meaningless.

 

[RD.]

So, my take is if a fish acts 'depressed' or acts 'happier' in one tank than another, I wouldn't compare it to human experience or try to interpret what the experience means for a fish, but I don't discount the behaviors as meaningless.

Well said.



Along this same line here's a paper I was reading just last week........

Can fish suffer?: perspectives on sentience,
pain, fear and stress

K.P. Chandroo, I.J.H. Duncan, R.D. Moccia
Department of Animal and Poultry Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ont., Canada N1G 2W1

http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~rmoccia/RDM articles/Fish Welfare -Chandroo, Duncan, Moccia 2004.pdf

 

[cichlidfish]

Cichlidfish, do you have any verifiable scientific data to back up your assertions that their brains are not capable of being depressed? Also, note that the tank was not permanent quarters, I had a much larger setup coming for them.

They don't have emotions like humans do, but what they feel is more instinctual. They feel pain, and do suffer though. Any cichlid does not morn the loss of another. They will tolerate each other for mating purposes. Look at how many sp. where the males often kill the females. Do you think they get depressed after that? Cichlids are territorial fish. Only mammals and birds really have the ability to get depressed. When a fish is suffering in poor water conditions, a small tank or tank mate stress may look "depressed".

http://abc7news.com/archive/7451150/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals

 

[cichlidfish]

Here's a few more... study of brain activity in a cichlid fish in response to social situations... another study of cichlids (scroll down page to second article with cichlid photo)... study of endorphins/receptors in fish nervous system...

From what I've read, what any of this means in terms of fish 'consciousness' is still being studied and debated. So what a 'depressed' fish is actually 'thinking' or feeling might be open to interpretation (cichlids don't have a neocortex from what I've read), but behavior/responses like depression or reward response (happiness?) in fish apparently involves some of the same biochemistry as in what we think of as higher animals. So, my take is if a fish acts 'depressed' or acts 'happier' in one tank than another, I wouldn't compare it to human experience or try to interpret what the experience means for a fish, but I don't discount the behaviors as meaningless.

I agree with this too. It is different for fish than humans since the brains are so different.