Doing them a favour by getting rid of stuff like that IS encouraging them. Let them suffer with them and then hopefully they will stop bringing so many in. If they constantly have people to bail them out then ofcourse they will keep bringing stuff in they really shouldnt.
Help IDing a Bamboo Shark
- Thread starter krj-1168
- Start date
Underwater Girl - Is their anychance you can get me in touch with his wholesaler. I wouldnt mind getting one.
brenden.hewko@sac.on.ca
Is my personal email.
brenden.hewko@sac.on.ca
Is my personal email.
chrisdef15;678262; said:
Let me just make this crystal clear for you: Nicky (underwatergirl), Myself, and a few others handle difficult, endangered, dangerous, delicate, exotic, etc. species on a daily basis. There is no such thing as a "True Expert", as even those dubbed that STILL learn new things all the time. But one thing that is for sure that when it comes to awareness, education, and experience, you are inferior. period. Does that make you stupid - no, of course not, but it does mean that when you produce nothing but combative arguments, supercilious exclamations and denigrating statements based on nothing more than your own ostentatious estimations, you are asking for an amalgamated contemtuous response towards you with little sympathy.
From those of which I have encountered, your posts are nothing but counterproductive to MFK's purpose and goals. I have noticed a few members who have questioned you on your accusatory replies. Fact of the matter is, we are here to share experiences, knowledge, and advice, as well as gain all of the above.
When it comes to the particular species of this topic, and the involvement Nicky may or may not have in encouraging this supplier, I say this; Speak not about what you do not know. I know for a fact that the facility Nicky works for is Globally recognized for their superior shark collections, displays and husbandry. Their staff is far superior to your average novice hobbiest when it comes to experience with these animals, and they in addition are far better suited and equipped for such than you (or any of the private sector) will probably ever be. Claiming that they personally "Killed" 7 Juv. is quite a bold statement on your behalf in my opinion. Do you even have a clue about shark husbandry - even in it's most rudimentary form? Do you have any substatial data when it comes to genetic coding and sequencing ??? If so I am all ears. If not, you need to take a step back and open your eyes to the reality of the situation; I will break it down Barney style for you : If there are several species of shark in one holding, all thriving except for one, each new addition of said species - FROM THE SAME GENETIC LINE - suffering the same fate while their tank mates thrive........ IT IS NOT BY THE DELIBERATE NEGLIGENCE ON BEHALF OF THE KEEPER OR FACILITY (as you implied), to which these animals met their demise. More so, it is a direct result of - to put it simply, poor breeding (usually from repeated incest), resulting in unhealthy specimens.
Now you say by them continuing to receive these animals from this particular supplier, that they are encouraging him to go and get more. That is if it were him who was collecting or organizing such a collection, placing the animals in his possession by choice. We do not however have any information to make such an assumption, so naturally, you shouldn't. There is a bit of truth in the root of your statement in that if he is simply being irresponsible, and obtaining these animals just to ship them off, knowing full well there is a fatal mutation present, then yes, they should refuse any more. But also one must note that they were paying nothing more than the shipping of these animals, so what gain was there for the supplier to request more??? Se my point. There are two sides to every story, and until you look at the bigger picture, from every angle, it can prove foolish to make conclusions prematurely. I understand the point you were trying to make, however it is in your execution of said points, that temperatures rise. Questioning something before you determine the facts might serve you well. I am not trying to tear you down, but I think you may want you re-evaluate your particular style of communicating before you truly offend someone who could have had a lot to offer you.
Brenden;678437; said:
I don't know if I will be able to do that. You might be encouraging this wholesaler to get more. Haha.
Ok - first off.
Got to agree with UnderwaterGirl, and Water_baby(Em) - here.
Just - because they had 6 out of the 7 bamboos suddenly die on them - doesn't mean that they did anything wrong.
Like UnderwaterGirl said - most likely the species may not be as hardy as most other bamboos. Or it could be maybe indonesian bamboos require special conditions - that most bamboo species don't require. Or maybe the Indonesian Bamboos just don't adapt well to captivity. Or it could simply be- as both Em, & Nicky stated - a possible genetic weakness in group - due to possible inbreeding.
Does this mean that this species is impossible to keep in captivity. Likely it's quite possible - in the right conditions, or a stronger genetic line.
What it certainly does suggest - to me anyway -is that maybe this species should not be recommend to a novice or first time shark keeper, inlike most other bamboo sharks.
Got to agree with UnderwaterGirl, and Water_baby(Em) - here.
Just - because they had 6 out of the 7 bamboos suddenly die on them - doesn't mean that they did anything wrong.
Like UnderwaterGirl said - most likely the species may not be as hardy as most other bamboos. Or it could be maybe indonesian bamboos require special conditions - that most bamboo species don't require. Or maybe the Indonesian Bamboos just don't adapt well to captivity. Or it could simply be- as both Em, & Nicky stated - a possible genetic weakness in group - due to possible inbreeding.
Does this mean that this species is impossible to keep in captivity. Likely it's quite possible - in the right conditions, or a stronger genetic line.
What it certainly does suggest - to me anyway -is that maybe this species should not be recommend to a novice or first time shark keeper, inlike most other bamboo sharks.
water_baby83;678760; said:
As i said i wasnt originally hassling her husbandry skills but if you wanna have a whinge then ok go for it. I know im sometimes combative i just dislike people giving out wrong information to people who will then also go pass on that wrong information.
No im not a shark expert but i know abit and i know enough that if you kill 7 of something you should maybe give up. You made some big statement about one shark dieing and if the others survive it is ok and probs just a sick fish and i agree but thats not the case this time is it because there are more dead then alive. Alot more.
Are you denying they killed the 7 sharks??? I dont care how they died they where in her possesion and died. If they where in the wild then either nature or something else like maybe another shark killed them but they werent they where stuck in her tank so yes she killed them one way or another.
Dude - your really missing her entire point.
The fact is - UnderwaterGirl is likely doing absolutely nothing wrong in the care for this species - and she still has the same results. It could be a bad genetic batch of pups - or any of a dozen other factors - none relating to actual care - which cause the 6 to die. So it's not fair, or accurate to say she killed 6 sharks. She didn't kill them - they died despite the excellent care the sharks received.
The fact is in keeping sharks (or any animal for that matter), it's very possible to "suddenly" lose animals, even with excellent care. It's just a known fact of keeping animals.
I'm gonna step in here and say that having seven of something die with the volume we care for isn't really a big deal. That's like saying "Seven children died today in the US - we'd better stop having kids." We are pushign the envelope when it comes to shark husbandry. There is no other institution in the world displaying Indo bamboo right now (to my knowledge). When we got the first few, the wholesaler mislabled them. They didn't know what they were at the time of collection other than "bamboo shark". That being said, we house the largest captive collection of bamboos, so it was only logical he contacted us. When we saw it, we ID'd the thing and put forth our best efforts toward rearing it. However, like I said, this hasn't been done prior to this point in time, so it's not like you pick up a book or google the answer of how to raise one.
The one we have is doing well. They are very slow growing, much unlike the other bamboo sharks. They have a very specific diet, and duplicating that is not something just anyone should take on. Our's are monitered very closely and I assure you the best care is given.
Are we supporting the wholesaler by continuing to take them off his hands? No, we are not. The powers that be had asked for more of them, we as an animals care staff had nothing to do with that choice. We do the best with what we are given. I'm certain that this (very reputable) wholesaler has better things to do than search the bottom of the ocean for a rare bamboo shark. But, we did request more. One of our missions as a leading shark facility is to LEARN more about them, their care and daily needs. This (sadly) is the way it happens.
The one we have is doing well. They are very slow growing, much unlike the other bamboo sharks. They have a very specific diet, and duplicating that is not something just anyone should take on. Our's are monitered very closely and I assure you the best care is given.
Are we supporting the wholesaler by continuing to take them off his hands? No, we are not. The powers that be had asked for more of them, we as an animals care staff had nothing to do with that choice. We do the best with what we are given. I'm certain that this (very reputable) wholesaler has better things to do than search the bottom of the ocean for a rare bamboo shark. But, we did request more. One of our missions as a leading shark facility is to LEARN more about them, their care and daily needs. This (sadly) is the way it happens.
Here Here - Zoodiver.
Often times - there are many failures before there is any real successes, in anything.
Including in the field of Elasmobranch Husbandary.
Often times - there are many failures before there is any real successes, in anything.
Including in the field of Elasmobranch Husbandary.
Krj- you missed my whole point. Again i worded it abit strongly but the sharks didnt just die from nothing. Whether it was her/there fault or not something they where doing or not doing or not providing them is what killed them, end of story. Not some mysterious illness. Unless you somehow have proof they where all related your bad genetics theory is abit useless. Unless ofcourse it is just a week species all round which is a good reason to leave them alone.
Zoodiver- Thank you for giving me a good explanation unlike the 2 girls who just thought they where good and went on about nothing basically and explained nothing. Do you work with underwatergirl?? As i originally tried to say i didnt mean to hassle your/her or anyone else you work withs husbandry skills all i was saying that if 7 of something dies there has to be a reason why and unless that reason is worked out and fixed then they shouldnt be kept anymore.
Zoodiver- Thank you for giving me a good explanation unlike the 2 girls who just thought they where good and went on about nothing basically and explained nothing. Do you work with underwatergirl?? As i originally tried to say i didnt mean to hassle your/her or anyone else you work withs husbandry skills all i was saying that if 7 of something dies there has to be a reason why and unless that reason is worked out and fixed then they shouldnt be kept anymore.
