Help.. OLD BIO MEDIA NEEDS CHANGE???

[Toby_H]

^^ It all depends on what it's "clogged up" with... In his original post TheCunuck mentioned "smoothing over"... So I was picturing a calcium build up which is white and basically looks like the ceramic nugget.

As those who know me know, I am a HUGE advocate of offering heavy mechanical filtration prior to bio media. "Beneficial Bacteria" (I can't stand that term ) looks like dirt. So it's hard to look at mature bio media and evaluate what is gunk that needs to be cleaned out and what is bacteria that is keeping our fish alive. So my solution is to properly care for the bio media (keep the gunk out) and never ever clean it.

But then again I'm the guy who feels in the vast majority of hobbyists tanks bio media is completely unnecessary, so I don't really worry about it.


I'm quite skeptical of a lot of the ioncredibly high surface area medias. The higher the surface aera (by volume) the smaller the pores are in the media. The smaller the pores the faster/easier they will become clogged. If they are small enough it's quite possible for a little bacteria growth to clog it right up.

So I wonder how many of out '5,000 sq inch per cubic inch' bio media is offering us a practical 6 square inches of surface area after 3 months of use?... I'm sure they will always offer more than a 6 sides block due to their rough exterrior, but I think the thousands they gloat is simply marketing...

but I digress...

 

[tableau]

I had some experiences with Eheim's Substrat Pro that could be interesting for you. I was running a canister with this media for two years when I began to have little ammonia spikes. I taught this media was good forever if I rinsed it regulary in tank water to avoid it to clog; I did not beleived the company when saying to change 2/3 of it each 6 months. I was wrong. I changed half of it and never had other issues with ammonia spikes since. It seems that this media will clog or will become less effective in houssing bacterias over time, no matter rinsing it. Sad that it is so pricey.

 

[TheCanuck]

wow great info guys. This is almost making up for the lost post.


anyone else experience loss of bio over time?

 

[Toby_H]

I had some experiences with Eheim's Substrat Pro that could be interesting for you. I was running a canister with this media for two years when I began to have little ammonia spikes. I taught this media was good forever if I rinsed it regulary in tank water to avoid it to clog; I did not beleived the company when saying to change 2/3 of it each 6 months. I was wrong. I changed half of it and never had other issues with ammonia spikes since. It seems that this media will clog or will become less effective in houssing bacterias over time, no matter rinsing it. Sad that it is so pricey.

Did you change anything else at the time? A thorough cleaning of the tank to remove excess waste in the system... put possible overfeeding in check...

Usually when we see a problem we try a few things to solve it and often assume which one actually fixed the issue.

I'm not suggesting you are wrong in what solved your problem, and I can definitely see how, under specific conditions, you could be right... I'm just asking for clarity...

 

[TheCanuck]

hm i still cant find it in the search, i hope someone chimes in that has had further analysis on the subject. Maybe we can get a full review of each bio, and the time it lasted. Though mech filtration will play a big role in which lasts longer but i wonder if people have the diff bio throughout their sumps/ canisters and can actually state if they "wore out" or not.

NC- i like your point about the small pores... The really expensive stuff that is suppose to be the "best" per amount has the small pores, that i am guessing will be the number 1 media to clog and become less effective over time. I mean those pores and spaces are so small i am sure that BB can build ontop of its self killing the BB under it, thus removing SA. I could only imagine what a couple months or a year could do to those things. I have some that are completely brown, and i can not get the outer "shell" of brown off them, they can't be as effective as they once where. Maybe that adds to why i over do bio though. Everyone has a problem with overdoing bio etc.... Well now with me overdoing it when some of my media clogs or becomes less effective my unused media can now step up to the plate and become active. Thus never giving me a spike in my system and i can counter all my media going bad by overdoing bio and replacing maybe every 2 years, while keeping a good filter sock of 100 microns.



Free for people to disagree.... I like constructive arguments and other points.

 

[tableau]

Did not change anything else. I even skipped a gravel syphoning to avoid removing bacterias in there. Clearly no over feeding, nitrates level never gets over 5 ppm.

 

[tableau]

More clarity : It is a 30 gallons melanotaenia praecox specific tank that has been running for a little more than two years. The filtration is a eheim 2213 2/3 filed with Substrat Pro (after ceramincs rings and blue pad...).

The maintenance has always been the same : 30% water change weekly, filter media cleaning in tank water every month or two. Nitrates level average 5 ppm after water changes, always less than 10 before water changes.

After two years, I noticed small (less than 1 ppm) ammonia peaks the day after the water change. It was weird because I did not change anything. One week, I did the water change without syphoning the gravel : it resulted in no ammonia reading the day after. My deduction was that the majority of my bacterias were not anymore in my filter but in my gravel.

I spoke of it with my LFS and changed 50% of my Substrat pro. It worked. I might be wrong with what solved the problem. However, I will change 50% of my Substrat pro each year; it's less than what the company suggest. Why not ask Eheim about the reason of their recommandations about replacing the media ?

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, english isn't my first language.

 

[Toby_H]

Did not change anything else. I even skipped a gravel syphoning to avoid removing bacterias in there. Clearly no over feeding, nitrates level never gets over 5 ppm.

Sounds like you could have been correct on your solution then...

hm i still cant find it in the search, i hope someone chimes in that has had further analysis on the subject. Maybe we can get a full review of each bio, and the time it lasted. Though mech filtration will play a big role in which lasts longer but i wonder if people have the diff bio throughout their sumps/ canisters and can actually state if they "wore out" or not.

Just be careful putting to much value on responses. There are dozens of contributing influences to the performance of bio media and I doubt any of us has the insight and education to thoroughly evaluate every one of them.

NC- i like your point about the small pores... The really expensive stuff that is suppose to be the "best" per amount has the small pores, that i am guessing will be the number 1 media to clog and become less effective over time.

"Bio Media" didn't even exist until the late 90's or early 00's. Before then we just let bacteria grow on whatever it chose to grow on. That way seemed fine for many years, why not now?

To me the high dollar bio media is just another marketing ploy. Sure there are a few situations it is beneficial, but when 5% of your merket "needs" it but 100% of your market buys it... you get quite rich

I mean those pores and spaces are so small i am sure that BB can build ontop of its self killing the BB under it, thus removing SA. I could only imagine what a couple months or a year could do to those things.

Most of us would be amazed if we really understood how much of a living system our bacterial colonies were. Dying and growing in mass on a daily basis.

They will build up in great amounts where the resources (ammonia, nitrite, oxygen, etc) are the greatest until there is so much bacteria there the resources available become quite small (per bacterium) and then they die off in mass. When they die off they themselves biodegrade creating additional resources as well as stop competing for resources...

The "available resources" shift in quantity as well as location and the bacterial colonies grow and dwindle to chase them down.

I have some that are completely brown, and i can not get the outer "shell" of brown off them, they can't be as effective as they once where.

The "brown shell" is likely organic waste. Either dead bacteria or waste from the fish that has worked it's way into the bio media. Soaking the media in a bleach solution (5~10 parts water / 1 part bleach) will dissolve the organics and clean out the media. Doing this can save you a bundle replacing media.

It's the minerals such as calcium that I'm not so sure of how to "clean out" from the bio media... but I don't think it's common for the bio media to get clogged with minerals.

Maybe that adds to why i over do bio though. Everyone has a problem with overdoing bio etc....

The "bigger/more is better" approach to filtrtion often works, but is rarely the ideal approach. The more we understand our system and the systems at work in our filtration, the smarter we will be able to filter our tanks.

I know I'[ve put a ton of effort into educating myself on this topic, but I also understand that different water conditions will facilitate the ecosystem differently. So not everything I do in my tanks will work equally in your tanks.

The dynamics of science

Well now with me overdoing it when some of my media clogs or becomes less effective my unused media can now step up to the plate and become active. Thus never giving me a spike in my system and i can counter all my media going bad by overdoing bio and replacing maybe every 2 years, while keeping a good filter sock of 100 microns.

Or you could use bio media with less surface area per volume... which means it has wider pores and is less likely to become clogged and useless...

This way you have a smaller initial investment as well as have less maintenance to keep track of and perform... with the same result...

But if you do go with the fancy stuff try the water/bleach soak... if you are concerned about using bleach for aquarium items (I was for years) keep in mind that bleach is essentially concentrated chlorine. And we all have dechlorinator readily available.

Free for people to disagree.... I like constructive arguments and other points.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... feel free to share your way method of cat mutilation!

 

[tableau]

To me the high dollar bio media is just another marketing ploy.

That's why they created bio medias that are highly effective but do not last long. They sell the filter for cheap, because they know you will need to buy the costly media over and over.

 

[Toby_H]

That's why they created bio medias that are highly effective but do not last long. They sell the filter for cheap, because they know you will need to buy the costly media over and over.

And the funny part is... as you learned...

The gravel works just as good at hosting bacteria as the bio media...

Both driftwood and terra cotta (clay pots) are both very porous. I suspect most of my bacteria lives in these two things which I have in most of my tanks. I don't use bio media...