Help To Bring Asian Aros Back To The US...
- Thread starter Oddball
- Start date
LOL!!! You have to remember, the USFWS is made up of PEOPLE, not robots. The intent of ESA permits and EOS permits under the ESA is to allow legitimate institutions to import the animals for scientific and biological research. You pretty much have to contact them and get a verbal approval prior to even submitting an application.
More importantly, the museum permit only allows the import of dead animals and or their parts. The biological permit only allows for the import of blood, tissue sample.
The permit that would allow the import of the fish is this one: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-37.pdf
Little known (I think) is that (I believe and don't feel like digging for it right now) last year, the USFWS modified the permit apps to make it easier for institutions to fill out/apply for permits. This form was the main change. It's sort of a blanket import/export/foreign commerce permit application.
Like I said, and it says it right on the USFWS website, that you should contact the usfws and discuss the permit and reasons before applying. If you read the permit app, it does ask a lot of specifics about what it is that you're doing with the animal once imported. If it's "to stick in a tank in my living room" forget it. But if you are a legit operation and the reason for import falls under section 10 of the ESA: http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esaall.pdf (page 30) then, yes, you could get a permit. Good luck!
This is actually all much simpler than most people realize I think. What I'm working on is the interpretation of Section 10, subsection A of the ESA, and it comes down to the decision of the USFWS on whether a monetary contribution to CI to help them carry out their conservation plan in the field falls under "enhancement of survival".
Little shameless plug here, but if you're interested in this sort of thing, and you haven't already, check out http://www.savethearowana.com
More importantly, the museum permit only allows the import of dead animals and or their parts. The biological permit only allows for the import of blood, tissue sample.
The permit that would allow the import of the fish is this one: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-37.pdf
Little known (I think) is that (I believe and don't feel like digging for it right now) last year, the USFWS modified the permit apps to make it easier for institutions to fill out/apply for permits. This form was the main change. It's sort of a blanket import/export/foreign commerce permit application.
Like I said, and it says it right on the USFWS website, that you should contact the usfws and discuss the permit and reasons before applying. If you read the permit app, it does ask a lot of specifics about what it is that you're doing with the animal once imported. If it's "to stick in a tank in my living room" forget it. But if you are a legit operation and the reason for import falls under section 10 of the ESA: http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esaall.pdf (page 30) then, yes, you could get a permit. Good luck!
This is actually all much simpler than most people realize I think. What I'm working on is the interpretation of Section 10, subsection A of the ESA, and it comes down to the decision of the USFWS on whether a monetary contribution to CI to help them carry out their conservation plan in the field falls under "enhancement of survival".
Little shameless plug here, but if you're interested in this sort of thing, and you haven't already, check out http://www.savethearowana.com
PMK;891721; said:
PMK;891721; said:
you need to be a certified public aquarium...certs are issued by American zoo and aquarium ( AZA ) and are a big deal and $$$ to get.... this relieves state and federal agencies from having to go and check you out.....
wizzin;891871; said:LOL!!! You have to remember, the USFWS is made up of PEOPLE, not robots. The intent of ESA permits and EOS permits under the ESA is to allow legitimate institutions to import the animals for scientific and biological research. You pretty much have to contact them and get a verbal approval prior to even submitting an application.
More importantly, the museum permit only allows the import of dead animals and or their parts. The biological permit only allows for the import of blood, tissue sample.
The permit that would allow the import of the fish is this one: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-37.pdf
Little known (I think) is that (I believe and don't feel like digging for it right now) last year, the USFWS modified the permit apps to make it easier for institutions to fill out/apply for permits. This form was the main change. It's sort of a blanket import/export/foreign commerce permit application.
Like I said, and it says it right on the USFWS website, that you should contact the usfws and discuss the permit and reasons before applying. If you read the permit app, it does ask a lot of specifics about what it is that you're doing with the animal once imported. If it's "to stick in a tank in my living room" forget it. But if you are a legit operation and the reason for import falls under section 10 of the ESA: http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esaall.pdf (page 30) then, yes, you could get a permit. Good luck!
This is actually all much simpler than most people realize I think. What I'm working on is the interpretation of Section 10, subsection A of the ESA, and it comes down to the decision of the USFWS on whether a monetary contribution to CI to help them carry out their conservation plan in the field falls under "enhancement of survival".
Little shameless plug here, but if you're interested in this sort of thing, and you haven't already, check out http://www.savethearowana.com
johnptc;891971; said:you need to be a certified public aquarium...certs are issued by American zoo and aquarium ( AZA ) and are a big deal and $$$ to get.... this relieves state and federal agencies from having to go and check you out.....
You cant blame a guy for trying to be creative. I have been to the site and registered. But I am definately a huge fan of this fish and would definitely like to see these captive bred so that the wild species can live out theres lives and get off the endagered species list. But if you really think of the amount of money this could generate to help the cause the numbers become staggering.I may go so far as to say 6 figures easily once everything is up and running for a couple of years. With the amount of people that want this fish for there aquarium and the price they already go for plus the fact that they would be legal its abosoutely amazing.
monetary contribution to CI to help them carry out their conservation plan in the field falls under "enhancement of survival".
Now for this to be done we just need a really really good lawyer. A good way to possible link the two is to get the records of the company that show how much they get in contributions specifically for the asian aro which i am sure is none if any and then follow up by showing the potential amount of money this may generate (exagerrating optional) and point out how this may help not only breeding them for pets but also have a reintroduction program for a large majority to go back into the wild. which would help reduce poaching since it will be available legally.
Now also depending on donations they recieve if its even a couple % increase over the previous years the organizations may open up there eyes and ears for money 99.99999999999999% of the time it will work when it means more money for them. The company i work for is pretty big and knowing some of the people in corporate they only due charity things based on potential sales increases. which sounds wrong but its true and most corporations goverment aganecies pretty much any large type of business is the same way you may have an exception here or there or even a mask to contradict it but in the end it all comes down to the mighty dollar.
Now I know this is all in theory but we cant give up there has to be a way.
Actually, more important than a lawyer is that we forge a good relationship with USFWS, which I've done. They are on our side. It's just a political thing really. Once enough of the right people at USFW are for this, it will happen on it's own.
CI has an Asian arowana fund. They actually have been receiving donations specifically for the arowana fund, but it's been from one source. Sea World Busch Gardens. They started the project in early 2006 with a grant from SWBG of $50,000. They just got a grant last month from SWBG of $20,000. Now, it's important to realize that as far as in situ conservation goes, $50,000 goes a LONG way in Cambodia! A Cambodian scientist's salary is roughly $150 a month, which is a good amount of money in Cambodia because of their economy.
I have been formulating theoretical revenue from an import permit program, and you are right. Depending on the number of people actually paying for permits, and the amount charged per permit, it could easily be in the high 6 figures. This is what we want actually. We want so much money going into conservation that CI can spread out into the other range countries, and eventually draw enough attention by getting this money that the governments of the countries want a piece of the action, and eventually start their own conservation efforts.
Conservation in these countries is a difficult thing for several reasons. Land use, and the diminishing forests, building and development etc have limited the remaining areas that conservation could be carried out. That said, there are still large areas where conservation CAN be carried out. Take Borneo for example. Most of the island now is protected, and the reds actually come from the Kapuas River in Borneo, which is now protected. Yellow tails and silvers come from borneo too. There are scientists who have found sustainable wild numbers in Malaysia too. It's difficult, but possible.
CI has an Asian arowana fund. They actually have been receiving donations specifically for the arowana fund, but it's been from one source. Sea World Busch Gardens. They started the project in early 2006 with a grant from SWBG of $50,000. They just got a grant last month from SWBG of $20,000. Now, it's important to realize that as far as in situ conservation goes, $50,000 goes a LONG way in Cambodia! A Cambodian scientist's salary is roughly $150 a month, which is a good amount of money in Cambodia because of their economy.
I have been formulating theoretical revenue from an import permit program, and you are right. Depending on the number of people actually paying for permits, and the amount charged per permit, it could easily be in the high 6 figures. This is what we want actually. We want so much money going into conservation that CI can spread out into the other range countries, and eventually draw enough attention by getting this money that the governments of the countries want a piece of the action, and eventually start their own conservation efforts.
Conservation in these countries is a difficult thing for several reasons. Land use, and the diminishing forests, building and development etc have limited the remaining areas that conservation could be carried out. That said, there are still large areas where conservation CAN be carried out. Take Borneo for example. Most of the island now is protected, and the reds actually come from the Kapuas River in Borneo, which is now protected. Yellow tails and silvers come from borneo too. There are scientists who have found sustainable wild numbers in Malaysia too. It's difficult, but possible.
PMK;892045; said:
Bump, shameless plug!@
Anyone who hasn't signed/become a www.savethearowana.com forum member it's a great chance to help establish a program to get some asian arows back in the u.s. Please sign the pettition while you're at it. Thank you.
Anyone who hasn't signed/become a www.savethearowana.com forum member it's a great chance to help establish a program to get some asian arows back in the u.s. Please sign the pettition while you're at it. Thank you.
I was told that there are/were some legal Asian Aros in the US, specifically in California, because they were already in the country before the bans went into effect, and that the feds had sued to take them away from the owner but lost in court.
If true, could these fish be used as breeding stock since they are already legal?
Could be an urban legend, however.
If true, could these fish be used as breeding stock since they are already legal?
Could be an urban legend, however.
I just wanted to let you know when i go to the site "save the Arowana" i cannot scroll down and read the whole page..either set up wrong or it is just my pc.. anyone else have this trouble.. i want to see it all
Sundew;902883; said:
Not true. I guess, not probable. The fish would have to be 30 years old. The offspring of these fish are still illegal. I think though that CA has some different views on interstate commerce, and federal law. Politics.
Red Devil;903168; said:I just wanted to let you know when i go to the site "save the Arowana" i cannot scroll down and read the whole page..either set up wrong or it is just my pc.. anyone else have this trouble.. i want to see it all
hmmm. I haven't seen that. I tested the site on firefox, IE 6 & 7, safari, opera and konqueror. What browser are you using? Thanks for the heads up.
