Help with Rats

[sidneymysnake]

I have owned my fair share of solitary rats in the past. Last night someone gave me 2 females and their babies to get a breeding project started for my snakes.

Right now each mom has a separate cage. They both have about 6 babies (haven't really gotten a good look). The lady said the babies are about a week old. I was wondering when I could separate mommy and babies. Is there a special food they should be eating? They eat the rat/mouse blend from PetSmart as well as whatever veggies we have in the fridge. After I separate them from their babies do I put the mom's together or leave them separate? When should I add a male to the mix?

Thanks for the help.

 

[ozz465]

Ive been breeding rats for snake food for a few years now , at that age the pinks would die without mom unless fed in some way . there way too young to be separated from mom . u can introduce the female to the male in a separate cage till the deed is done .

 

[Mavrick813]

When I was breeding rats for my snakes I kept 4 Females (2 White, 2 Brown.) and 2 Males (Both Piebald) The males had their own enclosure and I would cycle 2 of the females in with the males for 8 hours every day Basically 2 went in when I left for work, and came out when I got home. I never had a Female eat babies or attack the other females. In fact They actually would steal each others babies throughout the day and nurse them. I kept the color patterns I did because it was easy to switch them in and out of the male cage. I always had 4 females Prego and the males I kept in Pair so I didn't stress them out. As soon as I'd see babies eating from the food dish they would get yanked out of the Females cage and put into another set-up that had a BIG Sticker that said Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. (My sick way of naming them since the ladies in the house said I was cruel.) As for food, I used Purina 1 Dog Food. Litter was always old Newspaper shredded down to strips, 3" by 14" or whatever the length of the paper was.

G/L.

Mike

PS: FWIW I had 3 breeding pairs of Ball Pythons, 2 Unproven Ball Pythons, 1 Red Tail Boa, and An Albino Cornsnake. These snakes were fed Bi-weekly. But On occasion with my set-up I would end up with a few rats that didn't get used as feeders because they had gotten too big. (Well bigger then I like to feed live.) I had an arrangement with my LPS for $1 credit for each rat I dropped off. They would just give me a Gift Cert. Always helped with my Koi Food Bill.

 

[sidneymysnake]

When I was breeding rats for my snakes I kept 4 Females (2 White, 2 Brown.) and 2 Males (Both Piebald) The males had their own enclosure and I would cycle 2 of the females in with the males for 8 hours every day Basically 2 went in when I left for work, and came out when I got home. I never had a Female eat babies or attack the other females. In fact They actually would steal each others babies throughout the day and nurse them. I kept the color patterns I did because it was easy to switch them in and out of the male cage. I always had 4 females Prego and the males I kept in Pair so I didn't stress them out. As soon as I'd see babies eating from the food dish they would get yanked out of the Females cage and put into another set-up that had a BIG Sticker that said Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. (My sick way of naming them since the ladies in the house said I was cruel.) As for food, I used Purina 1 Dog Food. Litter was always old Newspaper shredded down to strips, 3" by 14" or whatever the length of the paper was.

G/L.

Mike

PS: FWIW I had 3 breeding pairs of Ball Pythons, 2 Unproven Ball Pythons, 1 Red Tail Boa, and An Albino Cornsnake. These snakes were fed Bi-weekly. But On occasion with my set-up I would end up with a few rats that didn't get used as feeders because they had gotten too big. (Well bigger then I like to feed live.) I had an arrangement with my LPS for $1 credit for each rat I dropped off. They would just give me a Gift Cert. Always helped with my Koi Food Bill.

I appreciate your help. So you think that I should get 2 more females and 2 males? Right now I only have the 2 females and their litters.

 

[Mavrick813]

How many snakes do you have? What are their Sizes and Species? How big of a rat can they handle? How often do you feed? How fast do they digest what you give them? What temps do you keep them at?

I had 10 Mature Snakes, eating approx 2 rats Bi-Weekly. That's about 20 Rats a month. Some would say I overfed. But I never had any issues with any of my snakes. Or their offspring.

All this factored into my breeding set-up. I had an idea of what kind of litters I would see because as a child I raised Hamsters for the Local Pet Store. Rat Gestation and development is very similar.

I took it for granted that I would get on avg 5-12 babies per litter. And that the rats would be about 15-20 days old for my Cornsnake, 25-30 days old for my Balls, And 40-50 Days old for my Boa.

Also remember that the babies are staying with mom for Approx. 20-30 days. If timed properly you should see new Pinkies as the older Babies are ready for moving out on their own. Rat Gestation is approx. 20-25 days. When the older babies move out the ones that you have left over from the previous cycle either get eaten or move to the Pet Store.

G/L

Mike

Great Picture Guide of Rat Development so you get an idea of what your getting into.
http://www.freewebs.com/clairecwigley/babyratdevelopment.htm

Very informative Article on Rat Gestation, Reproduction, and Development.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=18+1804&aid=889

 

[sidneymysnake]

9 very soon to be 10. Right now I have 5 ball pythons ranging from hatchling size to about 4.5' for my largest female, 2 red tail boas one about 2.5' long and the other about 6' , 1 corn snake about 3-4', 1 green tree that is hatchling size and tomorrow I will be getting a childrens python that is about a foot and a half long. I take in new snakes all of the time as rescues so this number is ever changing.

I have bred mice before but didn't know how different rats would be than rats.

There aren't any stores around here that will take them so I have to use what I produce. If this includes freezing what I don't need immediately I am fine with that as only 2 of my snakes will only eat live, and my corn can only have either p/k or f/t as she doesn't coil it anymore.

Also none of the stores around here sell anything smaller than a 'small rat' which is too big for my smaller boa to eat. This is another reason I want to breed my own so I can feed something more nutritional than a mouse.

 

[Mavrick813]

Well, For your corn I would suggest feeding the 15-20 day old babies live. They're eyes are normally just opened at this point. They're still feeding off of Momma, and i'm not really concerned about their teeth at this age

The Hatchling Balls, Should be eating Pinkies, The Balls around 2' should be eating babies around 25-35 days old. The 3'+ Balls should be able to handle babies 40-60 days old

The 2 1/2' long Boas should be able to hand 25-35 day old babies. and the 6 Footer should be able to handle 60-70 + day old babies.

The Childrens should be able to handle 15-25 day old babies.

The Green Tree Pythons to my knowledge do better with smaller prey items. So keep him on pinkies for a while.

General rule of thumb is don't feed any prey item that is equal to or larger then the thickest part of the animal. NOW KEEP IN MIND. If your feeding bi-weekly you have to account for prey items still in the digestive tract, and if your breeding, Keep in mind Egg Carrying. So, I always fed smaller meals, More often.

ALSO, A humane way to put your rats down would be with a Co2 Chamber.

All you need is a plastic jar of sorts, A remote line for a Co2 tank, and a fitting. Drill a hole in the jar, epoxy in the fitting, connect the remote line, and turn the knob a 1/4 turn for 3 minutes. The Co2 tanks are relatively cheap now a days and can be had at your local Lowes or HD.

 

[sidneymysnake]

Well, For your corn I would suggest feeding the 15-20 day old babies live. They're eyes are normally just opened at this point. They're still feeding off of Momma, and i'm not really concerned about their teeth at this age

The Hatchling Balls, Should be eating Pinkies, The Balls around 2' should be eating babies around 25-35 days old. The 3'+ Balls should be able to handle babies 40-60 days old

The 2 1/2' long Boas should be able to hand 25-35 day old babies. and the 6 Footer should be able to handle 60-70 + day old babies.

The Childrens should be able to handle 15-25 day old babies.

The Green Tree Pythons to my knowledge do better with smaller prey items. So keep him on pinkies for a while.

General rule of thumb is don't feed any prey item that is equal to or larger then the thickest part of the animal. NOW KEEP IN MIND. If your feeding bi-weekly you have to account for prey items still in the digestive tract, and if your breeding, Keep in mind Egg Carrying. So, I always fed smaller meals, More often.

ALSO, A humane way to put your rats down would be with a Co2 Chamber.

All you need is a plastic jar of sorts, A remote line for a Co2 tank, and a fitting. Drill a hole in the jar, epoxy in the fitting, connect the remote line, and turn the knob a 1/4 turn for 3 minutes. The Co2 tanks are relatively cheap now a days and can be had at your local Lowes or HD.

I am aware of how to feed my snakes, just don't know how to breed rats. Didn't know how different they were from mice, but do not seem different at all really. I don't breed reptiles as I take in rescue animals that generally either have nasty attitudes, are beat up, or sometimes both. The ones that can go on to new homes do so when they are at full health and ready to go. I appreciate your advice concerning the rat breeding - thank you.

 

[RMorrow]

Breeding the rats is relative easy with a bit of planning and oversight. I keep hundreds of breeder rats and over a thousand breeder mice on hand at any given time. The babies can be weaned at 4 weeks to be safe, the mothers can breed within a week of giving birth. So what I do is after the young are a week old, I will introduce a male for a day to let him breed the female. After the day is up, I pull the male and the now (usually) pregnant female will continue to care for her young. At 4 weeks I separate out the young and the mom will have the next litter about a week after that. Then the cycle repeats. The young females can also be bred at 4 weeks but I usually wait until they are at least 6 weeks. For bedding I have used hay, recycled newspaper, corn cob all with success. I would recommend a diet of lab blocks from Mazuri or Harlan Tek. You can also supplement with other things but I would make the blocks the staple. This will increase the nutritional value of your feeders more than any dog food or rodent seed mix. When the cycle slows, it usually means the breeders are stressed or sick, but usually means they are bred out and need to be replaced.

 

[sidneymysnake]

Breeding the rats is relative easy with a bit of planning and oversight. I keep hundreds of breeder rats and over a thousand breeder mice on hand at any given time. The babies can be weaned at 4 weeks to be safe, the mothers can breed within a week of giving birth. So what I do is after the young are a week old, I will introduce a male for a day to let him breed the female. After the day is up, I pull the male and the now (usually) pregnant female will continue to care for her young. At 4 weeks I separate out the young and the mom will have the next litter about a week after that. Then the cycle repeats. The young females can also be bred at 4 weeks but I usually wait until they are at least 6 weeks. For bedding I have used hay, recycled newspaper, corn cob all with success. I would recommend a diet of lab blocks from Mazuri or Harlan Tek. You can also supplement with other things but I would make the blocks the staple. This will increase the nutritional value of your feeders more than any dog food or rodent seed mix. When the cycle slows, it usually means the breeders are stressed or sick, but usually means they are bred out and need to be replaced.

Awesome, thanks so much