Help with Sexing L600

[Pwntroop]

I recently bought this pleco from my LFS sold as a L600, maybe about 10-12 inches in size.

The owner of the LFS believes it to be a female and is about 80% sure by venting and looking at the head/body shape. Is the head/body shape the only reliable indicator at this size, or does venting/looking at the hairy fins (supposedly more hairy = male) also be a factor in determining the sex?

https://imgur.com/a/DUGqOqN

https://imgur.com/a/2Aa3TNL

https://imgur.com/a/7IDlV2j

https://imgur.com/a/kUBrlhC

https://imgur.com/a/ovJltsU

https://imgur.com/a/xIldSl4

https://imgur.com/a/WHFB3jI

I believe it is a female but it could be a male too (wish it was easier to tell lol) does anyone have any second opinions?


Thanks !

 

[Rotaryp04s]

From the body shape I say it a female and lack of odontodes it been a lack of L600 for sale on the US market dnt be surprise if it a Lda07.

 

[DHarris]

I'm actually thinking it's a male. At close to a foot, I would expect a female to be much thicker in the mid-section. The head also looks a bit broad for a female. Call this an educated guess at best.

I'm going to back up Mr. Rotary in regard to the potential of it being an LDA07.
For me this doesn't have to do with the lack up true L600s currently on the market but more so the shape, markings and color.
There's a ton of debate as to the differences between L114, LDA07, L427 and L600 or wether they may actually all be the same fish with some subtle difference based on collection point.
That said, I have what would be considered LDA07 and a true L600. Beyond fairly different (or very subtle to some people) patterns and colors when viewed next to each other, the true L600 is a MUCH thicker bodied fish. Mine is an absolute tank when compared with my LDA07s. Not just broader but higher bodied. Your fish is flatter than a comparably sized L600 would be.

I'll try to take pictures of them side by side to better illustrate.

 

[Chicxulub]

I saw the thread title and for a moment I thought this was something I was going to have to spam ban lol

 

[Pwntroop]

I'm actually thinking it's a male. At close to a foot, I would expect a female to be much thicker in the mid-section. The head also looks a bit broad for a female. Call this an educated guess at best.

I'm going to back up Mr. Rotary in regard to the potential of it being an LDA07.
For me this doesn't have to do with the lack up true L600s currently on the market but more so the shape, markings and color.
There's a ton of debate as to the differences between L114, LDA07, L427 and L600 or wether they may actually all be the same fish with some subtle difference based on collection point.
That said, I have what would be considered LDA07 and a true L600. Beyond fairly different (or very subtle to some people) patterns and colors when viewed next to each other, the true L600 is a MUCH thicker bodied fish. Mine is an absolute tank when compared with my LDA07s. Not just broader but higher bodied. Your fish is flatter than a comparably sized L600 would be.

I'll try to take pictures of them side by side to better illustrate.

Hm I had only recently just got it a few days ago, been feeding it mussels past 48 hours and I already see more size in the mid section (kind of like size of a mini golf ball) which makes me think it could be a female but I'm not too sure. I can compare it side by side to my male L24 in the same tank (although different of course but still pseudas) and the body on the male is a bit more slender and the head seems to be more pointy and lean.

If the head is broad and short/stubby isn't that a female trait - while long and slender/triangular shape of the head a male trait? I assume body shape and head shape to be the most reliable indicators?

What are the main differences between LDA07 and L600? Kind of like L114 and L600 differences? I'm thinking maybe the one I purchased could be a hybrid perhaps. However, I do have a large male L114 so even if it was a L600/LDA07/L114, I was hoping it was at the very least a female, as from my understanding they can still crossbreed with each other if its any of the 3 since they are the same species but appearance varies based on collection point as you had mentioned.

For sure if you have pictures it'd be great to compare thanks

 

[Orthopod]

I’d have to agree that it looks more like LDA 07 than L600 - obviously there is a debate if any of the distinctions L114, LDA 07, L600 and L427 have real merit.

Separately, body looks more male to me but as you know pseudacanthicus are difficult to sex. And if significantly under fed upon arrival, that could alter my thoughts. Obviously, just a guess.

 

[DHarris]

Sorry for the delay in taking pictures and the ones I got aren't great.
The two fish look less similar in person than they do here but I'll do my best to pint out the differences that I look for between L600 and LDA07.

First up is the L600. This fish is about 6" and THICK. I'll try to get some decent pictures of it head on but it's very torpedo shaped. It's both wide and deep bodied top to bottom.
Built like a tank. My only other Pseuda that comes close to this sort of mass for it's size is my L096. Even my L24s which are bulky lack the body height of this guy.


Here's my LDA07 (or so I think). Patterns are close but the spots on the L600 are larger, more defined and spaced out. I have two other LDA07s and while the pattern differs from fish to fish, they all have the smaller spots in greater numbers than my L600.
Coloration looks pretty similar here but in person my L600 is much more green than any of my LDA07, which are somewhere between olive and brown.
The tail shape is also different. While not small, the tail on the L600 much more compact than any of my LDA07.
I have no clue if it's an indicator of variety or not but it does seem to me that 7-pointers are much more common among LDA07.
This fish is about 5" but eats like crazy and has a fat belly. That said, you can see it's a much flatter fish. Just look at the heads.


If I'm able to get any better pictures or if anything else comes to mind I'll circle back.
Happy to answer any questions if I can.

Take all of this with a grain of salt. While I don't think I am, I could be completely wrong on all of this...

 

[Joshomaru]

A lot of good info in this thread!

 

[Pwntroop]

Thanks for the info! It definitely helps.. I think after reading your info I'm leaning more towards my fish being a LDA07

Its possible for the LDA07 to breed with the L600 right? I wonder what the hybrid would look like if your fish bred if it were possible

 

[DHarris]

I would assume it is possible.
I believe it was on Planetcatfish but I recall reading a thread where tissue samples were collected and tested from L114, L427, L600 and LDA07 and they're genetically identical.

Another thing to further confuse us...