HOB Filters Beginner-ish Cycle question???

[Dairy]

apply some stability, its a product from seachem or stress zyme+ from API, both of them work just fine base on my experience. i never cycle my tank the old fashion way.

I have tried tetra safestart before with no luck with HOBs. But i do have stability as well. Maybe i'll try it again when i get the chance. Thanks much

 

[zabelkid]

i would put a small sponge filter in the tank, for extra bio. cheap easy maintenance free. dechlorinate tap water for a couple minutes before you put in tank, if you are not doing this already.

you mentioned you have 2 sponges but dont know if that means sponge filte

 

[muffywrx]

To all who say stop the WC, you did notice there are fish in the tank, right?
You are doing something to stop the cycle process.
Whether it is how you service the HOB, overfeeding and not doing a good job of cleaning the tank..whatever the reason.
A with fish cycle is a real bear to do.
WC and dose with Prime( or other) to lower and detoxify the ammonia is all you can do.
Or, pull the fish out.
Even a fishless cycle at a 4ppm ammonia level can get weird.
You can still start converting to nitrites, but at that high a level, you inhibit the nitrite to nitrate process.
Lots of people successfully cycle tanks running HOB.
There is something you are doing that is stalling your cycle.

this is an interesting bit of info, if the ammonia is too high, nitrite cant convert to nitrate?

neat.

 

[KaiserSousay]

I won`t pretend to understand all the science of it, but high ammonia rates really mess with the ammonia munchers.
Oh, some of the ammonia will still get to be nitrate, just not all of it, and it seems to stay that way for an awful long time.
You end up with a tank that has both, high levels of ammonia and nitrates.
Swell, a tank full of highly toxic to fish problems.
Used to be, when doing a fishless cycle you would be told to get your ammonia level up to the 5ppm range.
So many had problems with their cycle getting “stalled” that some started using a lower ammonia dosage and it worked way better.
Now, those who know, start their cycle with a 2-3ppm level and have no problems.
Even those that swear by the “bottle cycle” products can have a hard time of it with high ammonia levels.
As much trouble as you can get into doing a fishless cycle, when you try to do it with fish, it often doesn`t end well.
All the OP can do is WC to help save the fish.
Since MOM is doing the feeding, you might try to get her to feed every 3 days, or even once a week, until your tanks chemistry gets back on track.
Might be a tough sell, trying to convince her that the fish are not “starving to death”, but would really help your tank.
Other option, pull the fish and start over.
Good luck.

 

[Dairy]

I won`t pretend to understand all the science of it, but high ammonia rates really mess with the ammonia munchers.
Oh, some of the ammonia will still get to be nitrate, just not all of it, and it seems to stay that way for an awful long time.
You end up with a tank that has both, high levels of ammonia and nitrates.
Swell, a tank full of highly toxic to fish problems.
Used to be, when doing a fishless cycle you would be told to get your ammonia level up to the 5ppm range.
So many had problems with their cycle getting “stalled” that some started using a lower ammonia dosage and it worked way better.
Now, those who know, start their cycle with a 2-3ppm level and have no problems.
Even those that swear by the “bottle cycle” products can have a hard time of it with high ammonia levels.
As much trouble as you can get into doing a fishless cycle, when you try to do it with fish, it often doesn`t end well.
All the OP can do is WC to help save the fish.
Since MOM is doing the feeding, you might try to get her to feed every 3 days, or even once a week, until your tanks chemistry gets back on track.
Might be a tough sell, trying to convince her that the fish are not “starving to death”, but would really help your tank.
Other option, pull the fish and start over.
Good luck.

Makes sense. The info is so helpful. Thank you. This is what I'm planning to do:

- do a large wc change (while vacuuming the gravel too?), until ammonia reach at most 2 ppm
- rinse sponge media in the filter with tank water. I'll leave it alone from then on. And if i get a chance will add a sponge filter setup
- use Stability
- continue with daily 10% wc. Maintain 2 ppm ammonia. Do i have to gravel vac with this wc or leave it alone to grow bacteria?
- tell mom to feed every 3 days with just approx. 1 pinch only

Does this sound ok? What else am i missing... Thanks guys for the knowledge.

 

[KaiserSousay]

With the gravel, you are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place.
It needs to be clean so as not to add to ammonia loading, but you don`t want to disturb emerging bacterial colonies.
Once established, they are pretty tough, but you need to be gentile while they are getting started.
That is where careful feeding works wonders.
WC and keeping the ammonia detoxified will work.
The WC will keep the nitrate in check and your chemical of choice will keep the ammonia non toxic to the fish, but still make it available for the bacteria.
Might take awhile, so you need to decide if the fish you have are worth all that effort.
Unless the filters are totally gunked up, I would leave them alone.
The most tender of washing the media usually won`t remove the crud, and more vigorous cleaning damages the bacteria.
Just no simple, easy way around a with fish cycle.
It was allot easier when you didn`t know about all this stuff, eh….

 

[Etan]

I don't really see why a different type of filtration would effect you cycling a tank. Go buy a bottle of tetra safestart and dump it in your tank right below the filter intake. If you have another tank setup remove the sponge from the HOB and squeeze it out into the tank. This is how I cycle all of my tanks and it always takes less than a week.

 

[Dairy]

I can't figure out what i was doing wrong either. I used tetra safestart + media from an established tank with no success. I already have stability right now so i'll try that for now. I'm going to try the plan and see what happens. I already told mom to just feed once a week for now. And i'm going to try to do the 10% daily wc while lightly gravel vacuuming the top layer only. Currently at 2 ppm ammonia. Will do wc tomorrow. I hope i'll be successful this time. Wish me luck! Thanks for all your help and patience!

 

[Dairy]

Ok, I'm just gonna bump this thread up for an update. It finally cycled! Didn't take too long. Probably 3 weeks, 4 at most, with the help of stability.

Another problem though is, when it cycled, the water has gotten cloudy. It's probably a bacteria bloom. This happened before, i thought it was algae so i decreased the light time and covered the tank from direct sunlight. It didnt change anyhing so i thought it's probably time to change the filter pads. That's probably when i killed the benificial bacteria even though i change them one at a time (I have two in it)

Now, i'm not gonna make the same mistake again. I tested for ammonia and nitrite theyre both 0, so just decided to leave the tank alone for now until i get some advice from you guys

So, any suggestion to get rid of the cloudy (green) water? I prefer not to dose it with medication as to i'm afraid it might kill the good bacteria. Thanks so much!

 

[muffywrx]

Good to hear, stability is a good product.

Just so you know, if you are using API water test kit, it will not give accurate ammonia test results with the use of prime for 48 hours.

As far as your green water, reduce light to tank time to nothing to try to kill it... Don't need medication for algae. Cloudy green water is a type of algae.