So I have been reading up on sumps, and from what I see, there are overflow holes drilled near the top of the tank(you can also drill on the bottom but I would drill mine on the side near the top). The overflow drains water out of the tank down into the sump tank. After the water goes through the filtration chambers, a pump pushes it back up, dumping it into the tank. MY question then is, how is all the water cleaned? Wouldnt this just clean the top layer of water? Also, if the heater is in the sump, and warm water rises, this would reinforce only the top layer being cleaned.
how do sumps work?
- Thread starter yemista7
- Start date
The air water interface (the surface) actually contains some of the more deleterious (yet invisible ) substances in the tank.
You only see it if the water is still, then it appears are a white film.
By skimming the surface into the mechanical media in the sump, it is partially removed.
The bio-media in the sump then, also helps break it down into substances removed with water changes.
The best way to remove detritus from the bottom, is thru vacuuming, and doing water changes, not filtration.
Filtration does not remove particulate from the water, it just sequesters it in the media in the filter, be it a sump, or a canister, whatever type filtration.
Until you remove it (by cleaning the filter media) it is still in the tank producing nitrate, and other metabolism by-products.
To me......filtration is one of the most misunderstood parts of the hobby.
You only see it if the water is still, then it appears are a white film.
By skimming the surface into the mechanical media in the sump, it is partially removed.
The bio-media in the sump then, also helps break it down into substances removed with water changes.
The best way to remove detritus from the bottom, is thru vacuuming, and doing water changes, not filtration.
Filtration does not remove particulate from the water, it just sequesters it in the media in the filter, be it a sump, or a canister, whatever type filtration.
Until you remove it (by cleaning the filter media) it is still in the tank producing nitrate, and other metabolism by-products.
To me......filtration is one of the most misunderstood parts of the hobby.
I want to help guide you with your query. How large is your tank? A canister may be more to your liking...
Wet dry works pretty much how you’ve described it, mechanical via sponge/filter floss, bio via media of ones liking...
It’s all one system. I don’t think it’s possible (unless you have patricians) to separate it and have the issues your concerned about ie: cleaning only the top water or heating only the top water.
good luck!
Wet dry works pretty much how you’ve described it, mechanical via sponge/filter floss, bio via media of ones liking...
It’s all one system. I don’t think it’s possible (unless you have patricians) to separate it and have the issues your concerned about ie: cleaning only the top water or heating only the top water.
good luck!
To add, actually most sumps (not just wet dry types), will have the basic mechanical, biological and some chemical, and everything between.
Based on the rate of turnover between tank and sump all the water will flow through the sump filtration system.
As mentioned, filtration doesn't replace the need to remove the waste from your system with filter maintenance and water changes. Of course there are edge cases where some actually dont change water per se but that's a whole different thread.
Based on the rate of turnover between tank and sump all the water will flow through the sump filtration system.
As mentioned, filtration doesn't replace the need to remove the waste from your system with filter maintenance and water changes. Of course there are edge cases where some actually dont change water per se but that's a whole different thread.
A good water flow rate through the sump and back into the tank helps keeps everything mixed up. Like stated above it isn't going to keep debris from accumulating at the bottom of the tank but a healthy flow will keep the water mixed up so it doesn't stratify. Strategic placing and pointing of the return tube / pipe will also help keep things mixed.
With a very weak flow it would be possible for the water to layer like you pointed out.
With a very weak flow it would be possible for the water to layer like you pointed out.
Oughtsix
has the best answer to your actual question. The pump output will "mix" the levels of water. As for other issues a power head inside the tank can also mix the water and help to suspend detritus off the bottom so it can be sent down the overflow to the waiting mechanical filtration below.
duanes
is spot on about filtration being misunderstood too. You need to clean your mechanical filtration to remove the garbage in the water so it won't break down or before it can break down. This is why I like sumps and filter socks. I have 12 socks 2 go in at a time and these I pull every couple days and put them in a bucket of bleach water. When I'm down to my last pair of socks I throw them in the washing machine with some more bleach no soap no softener extra rinse cycle. I let the socks air dry for 2 days and back in action. Chlorine will off gas in a few hours naturally so no issue with that. Don't use scented bleach and absolutely no soap!
Any decent flow of water through the system will prevent this type of stratification; it's also pretty simple to modify the overflow so that it draws most or all of the water from the bottom of the tank rather than from the surface. If the tank is drilled at the bottom and has a vertical standpipe, a larger pipe that fits around the standpipe like a loose shroud, with holes drilled at the bottom, will draw water from the lower levels. With an overflow hole drilled at the top of the tank, which is what I use, a piece of pipe that reaches to the bottom of the tank, fitted with a 90-degree elbow at the top that slips into the drilled over flow hole, does the same thing.
In either case, a hole drilled in the shroud or downpipe at the water level will continue to draw a small amount of water from the surface, removing that filmy layer into the filter.
To me, the true beauty of the sump is the ease of maintenance; set-up properly, it allows you to quickly remove/replace/clean the initial mechanical filter layer (filter sock or other). You can literally clean it every day if you want to, and very easily, thus actually removing the particulate matter from the water before it breaks down. Compared to that, canister filters are a joke. They're trendy, and they "seem" high-tech to the casual observer...but they are much more trouble to clean. The manufacturers even use that as a selling point, crowing about how long you can go between cleanings. Congratulations! You have just purchased a device which discourages you from cleaning it for long periods, and which hides the poop and debris from sight while giving it time to break down and ad to your water pollution level. The only way to work around this is to use some sort of pre-filter which allows easy cleaning...that way, they are almost as good as sumps.
In either case, a hole drilled in the shroud or downpipe at the water level will continue to draw a small amount of water from the surface, removing that filmy layer into the filter.
To me, the true beauty of the sump is the ease of maintenance; set-up properly, it allows you to quickly remove/replace/clean the initial mechanical filter layer (filter sock or other). You can literally clean it every day if you want to, and very easily, thus actually removing the particulate matter from the water before it breaks down. Compared to that, canister filters are a joke. They're trendy, and they "seem" high-tech to the casual observer...but they are much more trouble to clean. The manufacturers even use that as a selling point, crowing about how long you can go between cleanings. Congratulations! You have just purchased a device which discourages you from cleaning it for long periods, and which hides the poop and debris from sight while giving it time to break down and ad to your water pollution level. The only way to work around this is to use some sort of pre-filter which allows easy cleaning...that way, they are almost as good as sumps.
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The Oase have a prefilter built in that make canister filters almost useable.Any decent flow of water through the system will prevent this type of stratification; it's also pretty simple to modify the overflow so that it draws most or all of the water from the bottom of the tank rather than from the surface. If the tank is drilled at the bottom and has a vertical standpipe, a larger pipe that fits around the standpipe like a loose shroud, with holes drilled at the bottom, will draw water from the lower levels. With an overflow hole drilled at the top of the tank, which is what I use, a piece of pipe that reaches to the bottom of the tank, fitted with a 90-degree elbow at the top that slips into the drilled over flow hole, does the same thing.
In either case, a hole drilled in the shroud or downpipe at the water level will continue to draw a small amount of water from the surface, removing that filmy layer into the filter.
To me, the true beauty of the sump is the ease of maintenance; set-up properly, it allows you to quickly remove/replace/clean the initial mechanical filter layer (filter sock or other). You can literally clean it every day if you want to, and very easily, thus actually removing the particulate matter from the water before it breaks down. Compared to that, canister filters are a joke. They're trendy, and they "seem" high-tech to the casual observer...but they are much more trouble to clean. The manufacturers even use that as a selling point, crowing about how long you can go between cleanings. Congratulations! You have just purchased a device which discourages you from cleaning it for long periods, and which hides the poop and debris from sight while giving it time to break down and ad to your water pollution level. The only way to work around this is to use some sort of pre-filter which allows easy cleaning...that way, they are almost as good as sumps.