How do you get a cichlid to become a glass banger?

[ccichc]

I always hear from breeders and experts saying glass banging is all about your interactions with the fish (environmental).
Is this true? Are there tips to making a cichlid a glass banger? Keeping it solo? Feeding them live food? Removing any hides?

please share your experiences and tips

 

[tiger15]

Glass bangers come naturally by birth. You can't turn naturally shy fish into glass bangers. Glass banging is a territorial behavior, seeing any movement or reflection on the glass as a threat. A natural glass banger has to be kept solo or in a breeding pair without distraction from competing tankmates to focus the attitude towards the glass.

Guaranteed glass bangers: polleni, Dovii, Midas, Red Terror, Haitian, Trimac, Flowerhorn.
Occasional glass bangers: Oscar, convict, Melanochromis, Pseudotropheus, Victorian Haps.
Shy non-bangers: Jack Dempsey, Jewel cichlid, Kribensis, Severum, synspillum, blue acara, angels, discus and most SAs

 

[neutrino]

I'd agree that the temperament of some species or individuals lend themselves to glass banging behavior, while some fish that don't do it normally will do it when protecting eggs or fry. A fish that naturally does this due to its temperament is one thing, but I certainly wouldn't consider trying to make a fish into a glass banger expert fish keeping, considering it often involves stressing a fish by trying to provoke its aggressive behavior-- like some kid who doesn't know any better tapping on the glass just to get a reaction.

It's not the only or best way to interact with your fish. The most obvious is feeding, which is why so many people overfeed, but some fish are curious enough, or become tame enough, to interact with you in other ways, like hand feeding, or some will even let you touch or "pet" them. For example, because (despite a tendency to be shy) they're actually quite curious when they're comfortable, when I kept kapampa gibberosa I'd hold a finger against the glass and the group of them would come up close and stare at it, while I could also train them to hand feed, and the occasional individual would let me touch him (I kept and bred them for over 20 years). Or there's the bettas I've had in community tanks that would come right up close to my hands when I was doing something in the tank, as if to see what I was up to, or my Rio Manacapuru and Rio Essequibo scalare that do the same thing hoping for food.

 

[tiger15]

There is a difference between glass banging to attack, versus glass hugging to beg for food. Juvenile cichlid are always hungry and will hug the glass for food when they see movement. But it is no glass banging aggression. The same out going juveniles may one day turn skittish and hide away from movement as they grow old and lose the youthful hunger. Dempsey, Synspillum and Frontosa are naturally shy fish IME and I’ve observed the transformation.

 

[RD.]

Glass banging typically equates to aggression, which over time can cause stress in captive animals. A good example was previously posted, tapping on the glass. Long term elevated cortisol levels is probably not going to be healthy for fish.

There is also no such thing as guaranteed glass banging species or strains. Not even Flowerhorn.
Obviously the species that are generally more prone to aggression in a glass box will generally be more prone to
exhibit this trait more than certain other species, but no guarantees.

 

[troublesum]

IME the only real glass bangers that ive had are Red devils, Midas, Trimacs, and of course Flowerhorns. I currently have a 10in F1 male Midas with a 8in F1 female Festae the Midas is totally crazy when ever me or my wife walk by the tank you can hear his mouth/teeth hit the glass and its loud. he has bit me more times then i can count. Funny thing is the festae is the tank boss and she is not shy she wont run but she don't glass bang.
A fish is either crazy and will bang the glass or they will not.
Only thing i can think of to train your fish to glass bang is do the mirror trick.

 

[Backfromthedead]

Mirror usually gets em goin. I think every cichlids worst enemy must be themself. A lot of flowerhorn keepers refer to this as "mirror training" in the belief that it will drive kok growth or something like that.

Other than that warmer temperatures always makes cichlids more active and prone to aggressive behavior imo.

But like RD said maybe not best idea to encourage lots of banging. A bit of aggression is fine but too much stress cant be good for the fish.

 

[RD.]

Yep, mirrors and above average temps can also trigger an upswing in hormones, and aggression, in certain species.

From a 2012 thread I posted in this section.....

The Nuchal Hump in Amphilophus | MonsterFishKeepers.com



This subject came up recently and while this may be common knowledge to some members I thought that I would share some information from some old research papers that discuss this in fish found within the midas complex.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0016648075901367


Hormonal control of the nuchal hump in the cichlid fish Cichlasoma citrinellum

C.R. Bleick - Zoology Department, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720 USA

Abstract

A nuchal hump (forehead swelling) develops in both male and female Cichlasoma citrinellum prior to spawning, and subsides shortly after spawning. Hump development is due to edema of the modified nuchal hypodermis. Fat stored in the same tissue does not contribute to prespawning hump development, although it may cause a residual, enduring hump. Plasma water increases slightly in fish with a nuchal swelling, indicating systemic water retention. The prespawning nuchal edema resembles preovulatory sexual skin swelling in monkeys. Nuchal hump development in males is gonad dependent.

A hump could be induced with mammalian gonadotropins (HCG or ovine LH) in intact males but not in castrates. However, the steroid hormones testosterone, 11-ketotestosterone, 17β-estradiol benzoate, progesterone, hydrocortisone acetate, and aldosterone failed to induce a hump. A decline in the hump comparable to that occurring after spawning was induced by homogenate of C. citrinellum rostral pars distalis (8 r. p. d. per male fish); and a slight effect was obtained with ovine prolactin (2 daily injections of 7.5 μg/g). These results suggest that PRL secretion may inhibit the hump during the parental period.


George Barlow also discusses this subject with regards to citrinellum kept in captivity in the following paper.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/v...pIU6Q#search="midas cichlid nicaragua barlow"

The factors determining the presence and size of the nuchal hump are complex, but they tend to assure that maximum dimorphism occurs at the time of pair formation. A typical progression makes the point: a male with no nuchal hump is brought into the laboratory and put into a situation conducive to breeding.

Within a few days he develops a large hump. Then he is paired with a female. The
hump recedes during the one or two weeks of courtship. Sometimes it diminishes rapidly, in less than one day, just before spawning (C.R. Bleick, pers. comm.). It stays reduced through the parental phase. If the pair completes the rearing of young and commences another breeding cycle, the male does not develop a large nuchal hump this time.

But if the female is taken away at this point for a few days and is then returned, or replaced with a new female, the hump develops anew in the male. Here the elaboration of the nuchal hump is stimulated by the factors associated with thwarted sexual behavior and pair formation.

Groups of males kept without females in large tanks regularly develop enormous nuchal humps that persist. The humps on such males often become grotesque, and far exceed anything seen in nature. The behavior of these males suggests that aggressive behavior might be involved in stimulating the development of the hump. Aggressive activity is also an important aspect of courtship behavior, particularly during pair formation.

 

[abominus]

Glass banging typically equates to aggression, which over time can cause stress in captive animals. A good example was previously posted, tapping on the glass. Long term elevated cortisol levels is probably not going to be healthy for fish.

There is also no such thing as guaranteed glass banging species or strains. Not even Flowerhorn.
Obviously the species that are generally more prone to aggression in a glass box will generally be more prone to
exhibit this trait more than certain other species, but no guarantees.

Mirror usually gets em goin. I think every cichlids worst enemy must be themself. A lot of flowerhorn keepers refer to this as "mirror training" in the belief that it will drive kok growth or something like that.

Other than that warmer temperatures always makes cichlids more active and prone to aggressive behavior imo.

But like RD said maybe not best idea to encourage lots of banging. A bit of aggression is fine but too much stress cant be good for the fish.

Interesting information from both of you. My Midas (Midevil) cichlids aren't psycho aggressors, which they are commonly known for. They are interactive; they come up to feed and recognize me, but they are not “glass bangers.” They are in a 500-gallon pond, and even though there are two of them, there isn't any fighting—just some occasional standoffs and bullying. Otherwise, they behave like any other peaceful fish. I love both of mine!

 

[RD.]

A classic example of an all male midas tank. https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/amphilophus-community.717165/#