Bio Wheels are based on Rotating Biological Contactors (RBCs), which are used extensively in waste water treatment plants.
How Important Is Bio Media?
- Thread starter Toby_H
- Start date
"Keep in mind Im a math guy
and have worked in the Engineering field for many years
But I just cannot wrap my brain around this ratio of 17,787 square inches of surface area within 1 cubic inch
"
hmmm...I think I see the problem. If you read "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene (a leading proponent of String Theory) you will find that there are actually ELEVEN dimensions. By factoring in these seven additional dimensions, the incongruity of 17,787:1 vanishes.
hmmm...I think I see the problem. If you read "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene (a leading proponent of String Theory) you will find that there are actually ELEVEN dimensions. By factoring in these seven additional dimensions, the incongruity of 17,787:1 vanishes.
brianp;3379492; said:
Oh great... so now do I need to start testing my tanks for snitrates... or sammonia...
I just read the whole thread and have to agree that not only is bio media pretty overrated but how much you need is dramatically overrated as well. It's so ridiculous when someone posts and says they have a 125 and they are thinking about getting an FX5 or an XP4 and they ask for advice on which one to get and people tell them both! And if that's not insane enough there is always those other guys that agree to get both but also that they should get a *insert whatever HOB here* and then you should be set for a 125. Half the time they don't even know what the stocking is and even then if you had enough fish that you actually needed all that then you probably have too many fish for a 125.
My bad for the mini rant it's just I can't understand why people blindly say things like "yeah if you have two canister filters it wouldn't hurt to add a sump. And an Emperor 400. Don't forget a drip system. Also another canister filter just in case. Make it the really big ehheim because they're the best." Ok I'm done.
My bad for the mini rant it's just I can't understand why people blindly say things like "yeah if you have two canister filters it wouldn't hurt to add a sump. And an Emperor 400. Don't forget a drip system. Also another canister filter just in case. Make it the really big ehheim because they're the best." Ok I'm done.
Nutcase, I agree with you wholeheartedly. My single favorite filter I've ever used in terms of it being a work horse & keeping water parameters great is a classic old Whisper HOB filter. It takes a filter cartridge and in front of that sits a piece of plastic "Bio-foam". I had one of these that was about 10 years old and was awesome. As a teen we quit keeping fish and it sat in a closet, and when I tried to use it again, it leaked. Unfortunately I jumped on everyone's advice on new "better" methods of filtration and threw it out instead of simply replacing the o-ring. Now I'm kicking myself for it. I'm now running two of these, and I run the plastic foam from one of them in a Penguin bio-wheel filter, too. I never have ammonia or nitrite spikes, and nitrates are the reason for water changes. These filters were on the market for YEARS. Why? They work great. For the average fish keeper there's no need for anything stronger.
I've said more than once- if that little black sponge holds enough bacteria for a 60 gallon tank to thrive with no ammonia or nitrites, why do you need to use 1 liter of specialised "more effective" bio-media?
Why when I pull the bio-wheel off a tank that's been running for 6 months do I NOT get an ammonia or nitrite spike? I've tried that on three different tanks with the same results every time. Here's a little hint: It's because there's no more bacteria growing on that wheel than there is on anything else in the tank! In my eyes I'm better off having that little bit of bio-foam that Whisper filters offer. I've ended up with far more mini-cycles in tanks with bio-wheels than in tanks with submerged media in HOB filters. It's also much easier for a bio-wheel to dry out and stop working than it is for a piece of bio-foam, or sponge as is in an AC filter.
Now, the AC power filters work basically the same way as that old Bio-foam did, and I do like them much better than the whispers. I've bought two ACs in the last 6 months, and would love to replace all of my HOBs with them, but don't want to spend the money. I like the use of all sponges instead of floss cartridges that don't come clean and need thrown away more often than sponges do. My ACs run two sponges & provided bio-media on top. I rotate sponges, cleaning one at a time, and the bio-media is there for a sense of security.
I've said more than once- if that little black sponge holds enough bacteria for a 60 gallon tank to thrive with no ammonia or nitrites, why do you need to use 1 liter of specialised "more effective" bio-media?
I look at canister filters as external under gravel filters. They work the exact same way- pull water through gravel (or rather, specialised media). The only difference is it's outside of the tank so it's easier to clean, and I don't have to keep two inches of gravel in my tank. The only other real advantage is that they're silent. I can control exactly how water flows in my tank, and I don't have to listen to water splashing like I do with a HOB. I run a 2217 on a tank with a lowered water level for my gars & polypterus and two Rapids mini canisters on tanks for amphibians who don't like a ton of water flow. I also like my canisters because they hold way more media than I need. Sure, that's kind of pointless, but I feed my fish & amphibians heavy, and I use live feeders quite often, so it's nice to have that sense of security that there is enough surface area for bacteria to grow to make up for the added bio load.CichlidAddict;3376303; said:
Lots of people will say bio-wheels are great, but IMO, they're garbage. I've had two Penguin 150s for a couple years now, and don't like them. I replaced one of them with an AC that does a much better job at keeping my tank clean. Here's my issue with a bio-wheel- people insist they're great. Theoretically they're a small W/D filter, and it makes sense.BPags52;3378644; said:
Why when I pull the bio-wheel off a tank that's been running for 6 months do I NOT get an ammonia or nitrite spike? I've tried that on three different tanks with the same results every time. Here's a little hint: It's because there's no more bacteria growing on that wheel than there is on anything else in the tank! In my eyes I'm better off having that little bit of bio-foam that Whisper filters offer. I've ended up with far more mini-cycles in tanks with bio-wheels than in tanks with submerged media in HOB filters. It's also much easier for a bio-wheel to dry out and stop working than it is for a piece of bio-foam, or sponge as is in an AC filter.
Now, the AC power filters work basically the same way as that old Bio-foam did, and I do like them much better than the whispers. I've bought two ACs in the last 6 months, and would love to replace all of my HOBs with them, but don't want to spend the money. I like the use of all sponges instead of floss cartridges that don't come clean and need thrown away more often than sponges do. My ACs run two sponges & provided bio-media on top. I rotate sponges, cleaning one at a time, and the bio-media is there for a sense of security.
brianhellno;3380182; said:
Brian, I agree with you there, as well. I think you may be referring to a thread that I just commented in before this one, and if that's the case- when people ask, "what's the best bang for the buck", I'll tell them one thing. When they ask me what' sufficient? That's something entirely different. It kills me when people insist you need 10x turnover per hour when I think about old UGFs that ran on air stones. What did they turn over? Hardly anything.
What an awesome thread. Great job guys lots of information broken down so I can even understand it. 
hey nc i know you told us your setups. but i dont know if im getting your concept of appropiate filtration on a average tank, i dont even know if i could expect you to explain as every case is different. i kinda think this thread is more about super high porous filtration, then per say bio balls or old school biomedia.
where do you draw the line of needing extra surface area, or needing to use the surface area in the tank more efficently like with a ugf.
i believe a tank could support a light stocking alone with no filter (if its not bare bottom)
for moderate i think you need to start using the surface area in the tank more efficently like with a ugf on air pumps or use a small filter.
for heavy i you need a good sized filter, or you need a ugf with powerheads.
for what i call monster(lol), carnivorious or extremely large fish, you do need a wet dry or a decent sized canister filter with some porous media.
i guess this is all relative wont be very exact.
but i do agree that surface area in seachems claims are pretty mind blowing, how thin would a piece of paper have to be to stack 17,787 square inch pieces and only be a inch high. i guess you could half that number as paper has too sides but its still alot
where do you draw the line of needing extra surface area, or needing to use the surface area in the tank more efficently like with a ugf.
i believe a tank could support a light stocking alone with no filter (if its not bare bottom)
for moderate i think you need to start using the surface area in the tank more efficently like with a ugf on air pumps or use a small filter.
for heavy i you need a good sized filter, or you need a ugf with powerheads.
for what i call monster(lol), carnivorious or extremely large fish, you do need a wet dry or a decent sized canister filter with some porous media.
i guess this is all relative wont be very exact.
but i do agree that surface area in seachems claims are pretty mind blowing, how thin would a piece of paper have to be to stack 17,787 square inch pieces and only be a inch high. i guess you could half that number as paper has too sides but its still alot
