I'd do the plexi like this, inside the 4x4 or you can recess it...main thing is to use that beam for strength...
How tall can I go with 1.25" acrylic
- Thread starter Phixer
- Start date
First off I have to thank you guys for your advice.
It looks like I didnt post the diagram correctly.
Wizzen, yeah thats basically what I meant. The closer the panel is to the bottom the greater the pressure. The closer to the top the less the pressure.
I plan on copying Joe Salvatoris design for the 1700 gallon shark tank almost exactly except it will have two 10 FT long viewing windows separated by a center pilliar like the fish guys tank. The timbers will form the external vertical skeleton. Several 4x4s across the top to prevent bowing. Two sheets of plywood for the skin, then fiberglass, then 3 coats of epoxy paint.
Was considering elevating the window to keep the sealing area away from sand and rocks, but this may still prove to be more trouble if the 4x4 it rests on bows and breaks the seal.
Some of my concerns are torsion due to thermal expansion with a tank this long.
And wether or not to use 2X6s or 4X4s for the verticle framing.
Which size timbers do you guys think would be best to use for the frame? Which type would be more stable and less succeptible to warping or cupping? Id hate to have this thing end up looking like a rippled potato chip then leak.
It looks like I didnt post the diagram correctly.
Wizzen, yeah thats basically what I meant. The closer the panel is to the bottom the greater the pressure. The closer to the top the less the pressure.
I plan on copying Joe Salvatoris design for the 1700 gallon shark tank almost exactly except it will have two 10 FT long viewing windows separated by a center pilliar like the fish guys tank. The timbers will form the external vertical skeleton. Several 4x4s across the top to prevent bowing. Two sheets of plywood for the skin, then fiberglass, then 3 coats of epoxy paint.
Was considering elevating the window to keep the sealing area away from sand and rocks, but this may still prove to be more trouble if the 4x4 it rests on bows and breaks the seal.
Some of my concerns are torsion due to thermal expansion with a tank this long.
And wether or not to use 2X6s or 4X4s for the verticle framing.
Which size timbers do you guys think would be best to use for the frame? Which type would be more stable and less succeptible to warping or cupping? Id hate to have this thing end up looking like a rippled potato chip then leak.
If I may make a suggestion or two...
First, I would really look at sanitred. Assuming your tank would be 20'Lx5'Wx4'D, you'd need to spend $400 for sanitred. If you go the fiberglas mat/resin then epoxy paint route, you're looking at about: $30 for the mat, $200 for resin, $240 for paint and then supplies such as fiberglass brushes, rollers and a REALLY good respirator!!!!!! If you've ever worked with fiberglass before, you'll know that the respirator is a MUST! I'd also suggest "tenting" off the area you'd be working in and having a good fan to vent the fumes. If you don't have a good respirator, that'll run you another $35-40. Working with the mat to get all the air bubbles out is a very time consuming process as well. Sanitred on the other hand, has almost no odor and is non-toxic. I got mine, and it pretty much smells like latex paint. Even less than paint.
Second, I would consider concrete block. I finished the block on my tank in 29 hours (that's two weekends) and mine is exactly half of what you're looking at (10'x4'x4'). If you've worked with block before, you'd probably be able to do it faster. Block would allow you to rebar into the existing slab at the base for a good connection, as you'll need it.
Here's my thread. If you consider the block route.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47243&page=11
Just my $0.02.... Good luck! Keep us posted...
First, I would really look at sanitred. Assuming your tank would be 20'Lx5'Wx4'D, you'd need to spend $400 for sanitred. If you go the fiberglas mat/resin then epoxy paint route, you're looking at about: $30 for the mat, $200 for resin, $240 for paint and then supplies such as fiberglass brushes, rollers and a REALLY good respirator!!!!!! If you've ever worked with fiberglass before, you'll know that the respirator is a MUST! I'd also suggest "tenting" off the area you'd be working in and having a good fan to vent the fumes. If you don't have a good respirator, that'll run you another $35-40. Working with the mat to get all the air bubbles out is a very time consuming process as well. Sanitred on the other hand, has almost no odor and is non-toxic. I got mine, and it pretty much smells like latex paint. Even less than paint.
Second, I would consider concrete block. I finished the block on my tank in 29 hours (that's two weekends) and mine is exactly half of what you're looking at (10'x4'x4'). If you've worked with block before, you'd probably be able to do it faster. Block would allow you to rebar into the existing slab at the base for a good connection, as you'll need it.
Here's my thread. If you consider the block route.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47243&page=11
Just my $0.02.... Good luck! Keep us posted...
wizzin;655844; said:
I read a little about Sanitred over wood but was concerned about it tearing. I heard about rocks and corals ripping a small hole and then the water pressure tearing it. This will be a marine tank so I would have to find out how well it holds up to saltwater. What colors does it come in?
Thinking about rebar re-enforced concrete blocks also Even with rebar I have had issues with concrete cracking. This approach would be very similar to swimming pool construction and I like it but the additional weight of concrete construction is also a concern of mine. Im already wondering how much weight the existing slab can handle without cracking and sinking causing the walls to buckle and threaten my foundation. Did you build your tank in a house basement? How about Sanitred, did you line the cinder block with Sanitred? Sorry for all the questions, I should probably read your article.
Jovial;656438; said:
I would call them and ask them about the tearing. I played with it and it would take an extreme force to tear it under water pressure. It's bonded to the wood, and soaks into the wood. It's not like latex paint on wood. The penetration is what makes it so good! You'd probably have to take a steak knife to it pretty hard to get a leak. That's why they have a lifetime guarentee.
Yes, the tank is in my basement.
The forces these type tanks exert on a slab is not as bad as you'd think. Mainly because the weight is distributed evenly, and is for the most part static. Most slabs are between 2200psi and 3200psi. The psi on the slab of my tank is 1.74psi. Even if your tank psi was 500 times what mine is, you'd be well within the limits of the existing slab, assuming the slab is in good shape with no cracks. My next step is to pour the new slab on top of the existing.
How on earth have you had issues with concrete cracking with rebar? There are an aweful lot of skyscrapers built out of rebar reinforced concrete. The PSI at the base of those suckers is extreme and they don't crack.
I'd be only slightly concerned about the type of rebar used in a saltwater tank, but you have to remember, the water should NEVER get near the rebar. It's encased in concrete, and you don't want saltwater in your concrete.
So are you placing an additional slab of concrete over the existing slab. Then building the tank on top of it? Want to make sure I read you right.
Colorado weather is very hard on concrete. One day its hot the next day its snowing. Lots of expansion and contraction. My driveway is full of cracks and needs to get replaced this summer,
PITA. Where I live the soil has a lot of clay in it too. When the clay is dry it is pretty stable, much more so than sand but if the clay gets wet it becomes squishy and unstable causing the slab to sink. So the excavation depth for footers has to be close to 36" to prevent frost heaving. Even with fiberglass mixed into the concrete the dry climate and speed of the constant freeze/thaw conditions causes tiny stress fractures in the concrete. Once a small fracture starts the water gets inside of it and then freezes again making the crack bigger. Have had to repair 3 vertical these cracks in my foundation so far, not bad though considering the house was built in 62 though. Probably not a big deal for a concrete tank in the basement since it will be in a climate controlled environment. I like this idea because its rock solid (no pun).
Would like to place the windows about 3FT above the ground though and thats a lot of concrete to pour to bring the bottom of the tank up to this height. Any ideas? Im gonna check out the sanitred site. Thanks
Colorado weather is very hard on concrete. One day its hot the next day its snowing. Lots of expansion and contraction. My driveway is full of cracks and needs to get replaced this summer,
PITA. Where I live the soil has a lot of clay in it too. When the clay is dry it is pretty stable, much more so than sand but if the clay gets wet it becomes squishy and unstable causing the slab to sink. So the excavation depth for footers has to be close to 36" to prevent frost heaving. Even with fiberglass mixed into the concrete the dry climate and speed of the constant freeze/thaw conditions causes tiny stress fractures in the concrete. Once a small fracture starts the water gets inside of it and then freezes again making the crack bigger. Have had to repair 3 vertical these cracks in my foundation so far, not bad though considering the house was built in 62 though. Probably not a big deal for a concrete tank in the basement since it will be in a climate controlled environment. I like this idea because its rock solid (no pun).Would like to place the windows about 3FT above the ground though and thats a lot of concrete to pour to bring the bottom of the tank up to this height. Any ideas? Im gonna check out the sanitred site. Thanks
yes. additonal slab on existing. AHHH. CO!! Yes, you do have different issues than here in western PA. The tank though, being inside in a controlled environment is the key. Concrete is prone to cracking outside, but when it's enclosed in another structrue, it's pretty stable. I built out the block on the wall side of the tank too for that reason. I didn't want one wall of the tank to be exposed to the elements.
On mine, the glass is 16" above slab. I wouldn't try to make the bottom of the tank as high as the bottom of the windows. The bottom of my tank is 16" below the bottom of the glass, and I don't mind. Adds to the mystery. I always liked the public aquariums where fish would "sneak" up on you from that area below the glass that you couldn't see into and come into view out of nowhere. I'd lower the glass and keep the bottom of the tank on the floor. how high was your acrylic? I based my locations on a seated viewing, so the top is a little low for a 6'0" guy like me to see in from the side. Also consider cleaning!!!! The top rail on mine is 4'8" a.f.f. and like I said, I'm 6', so with a little step stool and a long custom python, I can access everything. Any higher and it would've been next to impossible. Finally, ceiling height may play a roll. I need to get a lot of stuff above mine (overhead filtration).
On mine, the glass is 16" above slab. I wouldn't try to make the bottom of the tank as high as the bottom of the windows. The bottom of my tank is 16" below the bottom of the glass, and I don't mind. Adds to the mystery. I always liked the public aquariums where fish would "sneak" up on you from that area below the glass that you couldn't see into and come into view out of nowhere. I'd lower the glass and keep the bottom of the tank on the floor. how high was your acrylic? I based my locations on a seated viewing, so the top is a little low for a 6'0" guy like me to see in from the side. Also consider cleaning!!!! The top rail on mine is 4'8" a.f.f. and like I said, I'm 6', so with a little step stool and a long custom python, I can access everything. Any higher and it would've been next to impossible. Finally, ceiling height may play a roll. I need to get a lot of stuff above mine (overhead filtration).
the 2200-3200 psi is the compressive strength of the concrete.....it is not the load it will support.........
the load it will support is based on the soil/gravel under it....the amount of rebar in the slab and the thickness of the slab and the compressive strength of the concrete itself.
I believe but not positive that 200 pounds per square foot is a conservative load rating for a home slab...............several inches thick
hope this helps ..................
the load it will support is based on the soil/gravel under it....the amount of rebar in the slab and the thickness of the slab and the compressive strength of the concrete itself.
I believe but not positive that 200 pounds per square foot is a conservative load rating for a home slab...............several inches thick
hope this helps ..................
wizzin;656518; said:I would call them and ask them about the tearing. I played with it and it would take an extreme force to tear it under water pressure. It's bonded to the wood, and soaks into the wood. It's not like latex paint on wood. The penetration is what makes it so good! You'd probably have to take a steak knife to it pretty hard to get a leak. That's why they have a lifetime guarentee.
Yes, the tank is in my basement.
The forces these type tanks exert on a slab is not as bad as you'd think. Mainly because the weight is distributed evenly, and is for the most part static. Most slabs are between 2200psi and 3200psi. The psi on the slab of my tank is 1.74psi. Even if your tank psi was 500 times what mine is, you'd be well within the limits of the existing slab, assuming the slab is in good shape with no cracks. My next step is to pour the new slab on top of the existing.
How on earth have you had issues with concrete cracking with rebar? There are an aweful lot of skyscrapers built out of rebar reinforced concrete. The PSI at the base of those suckers is extreme and they don't crack.
I'd be only slightly concerned about the type of rebar used in a saltwater tank, but you have to remember, the water should NEVER get near the rebar. It's encased in concrete, and you don't want saltwater in your concrete.
Thanks John
The acrylic panels are 36" tall and 120" long 1.25" thick.
Still researching the Sanitred idea, the more I learn about this stuff the more I like it. I guess if puncturing or laceration is an issue I could just put on a few more coats to make it thicker. So far this stuff looks better suited for aquarium use because it dosent check/crack like epoxy sometimes can. I noticed that it is sensitive to UV light and can fade the color though but they say that it can be coated with epoxy paint for UV protection and to change the color to what I want. Thanks for the recommendation!
Can this stuff be used over fiberglass/plywood?
Now I have to consider the pro's and cons of cinderblock vs plywood/fiberglass construction.
The cinderblock construction is almost like a swimming pool but I would need the floor to be higher because I plan of keeping some bottom dwellers I need to keep an eye on.
Maybe ply/fiberglass/Sanitred/epoxy paint.
You guys gave me a lot to consider. Time to get some beer so I can think better.
The acrylic panels are 36" tall and 120" long 1.25" thick.
Still researching the Sanitred idea, the more I learn about this stuff the more I like it. I guess if puncturing or laceration is an issue I could just put on a few more coats to make it thicker. So far this stuff looks better suited for aquarium use because it dosent check/crack like epoxy sometimes can. I noticed that it is sensitive to UV light and can fade the color though but they say that it can be coated with epoxy paint for UV protection and to change the color to what I want. Thanks for the recommendation!
Can this stuff be used over fiberglass/plywood?
Now I have to consider the pro's and cons of cinderblock vs plywood/fiberglass construction.
The cinderblock construction is almost like a swimming pool but I would need the floor to be higher because I plan of keeping some bottom dwellers I need to keep an eye on.
Maybe ply/fiberglass/Sanitred/epoxy paint.
You guys gave me a lot to consider. Time to get some beer so I can think better.
