how to breed tems X azul?

[Scatocephalus]

Scat, do you consider your kelberi pure or hybrid ? I read it somewhere Kelberi were translocated to rio san francisco. How do you know your kelberi are any different than Florida's mono/occel hybrid scenario? Maybe that little hybridization made your kelberi stunnier than any of us here. "What do you think? "

Good question. I really don't know. I do know that they are wild caught. I also know that if they are hybrids that they are a naturally occuring hybrid not something purposefully created. I do know that I would be very disapointed to learn that they are hybrids. I tend to think that are simply a geographical variant of kelberi. It not at all out of the question to have a species of fish where one community is more colorful than the exact same fish from a different area. Lastly, they may not be kelberi at all but rather a new undescribed species.

I think that the whole comparison of wild hybrids to captive hybrids is an apple to oranges thing. Does hybridization occur in the wild? Absolutely. Amongst other things it can lead to new geographical races and possibly new species. It can diversify and strengthen the gene pool. The biggest difference is that in nature it is a natural thing. I also think that natural hybridization occurs a lot less often than what is being talked about here. Take Lake Malawi. It has the most diverse and wide ranging collection of different genre and species of cichlids of any body of water in the world. If hybridization was common you'd think that it would be rampant in such a setting yet it is seen surprisingly little. The fact is, each species has a mate of the same species to breed with. If hybridization does occur chances are very high that the offspring will seek out a pure mate from one of the two original parents. Each subsequent generation will do likewise until the genes of one of the two original parents are mostly bred out of the equation.

Take the Cichla that Jcardona posted. If it is a hybrid this fish will likely end up breeding with a pure orino or intermedia. The resultant offspring will then look more like the original wild parent of whichever specie the hybrid mates with. These off spring will likely seek out the fish that most looks like them and so on and so on. Eventually, for all pratical purposes they will look like a recognized naturally occuring species.

There's also the possibility that the fish posted is a geographical variant that has not been seen or described before. Just because it exhibits characteristics of two different species does not mean it is not a pure species itself. Jcardona's guess that it is a hybrid is just that, a guess.

Lake Malawi is so amazing that even fish of the same genre and species will only breed with mates that look just like them creating geographical variants of the same species. Essentially, in the wild these fish breed true.

Now take these same fish and stick them in an aquarium with a number of other species. Their natural drive to breed leads them to procreate with other fish that most of the time they would not even encounter in the wild. You have created conditions that make hybridization highly likely. This is not natural. Go to any board where they have "Help Me ID My Fish" section and 90% of them are Malawian mutts.

I personally dont mind the crossbreeding as long as he doesn't sell them and just keeps them himself. That way, they don't get out into the hobby or at least tell teh people they're hybrids.

The problem with hybridization is that people always say they'd never release the babies into the market place but eventualy money or an unwillingness to destroy hundreds of fish leads them to sell them or give them to a store or other hobbyists. Once they are out in the field god only knows what they are or where they came from. Some people are fine with that as long as they look cool. I'm not. I'd rather know what I have. Call me anal I can live with it.

you talk about insults, but you drove this guy into the ground with your superiority complex and bigotry. and that is one thing i cant stand; on this site and in people i meet. crap likes this ruins the hobby. you think we're ignorant on this subject, i think you are narrow-minded.

Fair enough. You're entitled to you opinion.

 

[Omega007]

Good question. I really don't know. I do know that they are wild caught. I also know that if they are hybrids that they are a naturally occuring hybrid not something purposefully created. I do know that I would be very disapointed to learn that they are hybrids. I tend to think that are simply a geographical variant of kelberi. It not at all out of the question to have a species of fish where one community is more colorful than the exact same fish from a different area. Lastly, they may not be kelberi at all but rather a new undescribed species.

I think that the whole comparison of wild hybrids to captive hybrids is an apple to oranges thing. Does hybridization occur in the wild? Absolutely. Amongst other things it can lead to new geographical races and possibly new species. It can diversify and strengthen the gene pool. The biggest difference is that in nature it is a natural thing. I also think that natural hybridization occurs a lot less often than what is being talked about here. Take Lake Malawi. It has the most diverse and wide ranging collection of different genre and species of cichlids of any body of water in the world. If hybridization was common you'd think that it would be rampant in such a setting yet it is seen surprisingly little. The fact is, each species has a mate of the same species to breed with. If hybridization does occur chances are very high that the offspring will seek out a pure mate from one of the two original parents. Each subsequent generation will do likewise until the genes of one of the two original parents are mostly bred out of the equation.

Take the Cichla that Jcardona posted. If it is a hybrid this fish will likely end up breeding with a pure orino or intermedia. The resultant offspring will then look more like the original wild parent of whichever specie the hybrid mates with. These off spring will likely seek out the fish that most looks like them and so on and so on. Eventually, for all pratical purposes they will look like a recognized naturally occuring species.

There's also the possibility that the fish posted is a geographical variant that has not been seen or described before. Just because it exhibits characteristics of two different species does not mean it is not a pure species itself. Jcardona's guess that it is a hybrid is just that, a guess.

Lake Malawi is so amazing that even fish of the same genre and species will only breed with mates that look just like them creating geographical variants of the same species. Essentially, in the wild these fish breed true.

Now take these same fish and stick them in an aquarium with a number of other species. Their natural drive to breed leads them to procreate with other fish that most of the time they would not even encounter in the wild. You have created conditions that make hybridization highly likely. This is not natural. Go to any board where they have "Help Me ID My Fish" section and 90% of them are Malawian mutts.



The problem with hybridization is that people always say they'd never release the babies into the market place but eventualy money or an unwillingness to destroy hundreds of fish leads them to sell them or give them to a store or other hobbyists. Once they are out in the field god only knows what they are or where they came from. Some people are fine with that as long as they look cool. I'm not. I'd rather know what I have. Call me anal I can live with it.



Fair enough. You're entitled to you opinion.

That will do for me. Thank you.

 

[Mosquito]

Go back to my post...I said they bred in his community tank and he then seperated them into their own tank. That didnt last and he switched the Piquiti with his male Orino.

ahh sorry, maybe i didnt read it..

Probably the females are in Singapore. You know I am kidding about the azul don't you?

Let us know how your project turns out. Who knows, you may get a xingu bass out of it!

ahahaha who knows

some of you guys are worst then women. You get your panties all up in the crack of your *** and have a hemoroid attack over the silliest shibby. Give the guy a break. Mosquito like it was said earlier buddy, their your fish. I gaurantee to the ones complaining if a woman of different race dropped her pants for you, you'd stick it, so whats the difference here, there fish. Get a damn life, and cut the guy some slack.
Mosquito, welcome to the forum, dont let these guys get you down, there nobody's. Some just have more knowledge and think they own this forum because people look up to their advice, or because they have oddball fish here that most of us cant get to, but the truth is their jealous if you can make it happen. BEST OF LUCK !!!

yeah.. things like this cant make me down jim.. thanks alot

wow...it turns to an interesting topic here,,
4 mosquito...u have a nice fishes there,and if u just trying to make them breed,just do it.
just try to make them comfortable with their enviroment,n with some luck i hope you'll get a fine result.with this method,it's no different from how they do in their natural habitat,so it'll be fine to make a different kind of fish to breed.
for me,people who forced fishes to lay thousands eggs with injections for a few bucks are far more un-gentle.
so keep moving n stay us updated here bro!..good luck.

thanks man, i will update their new pond soon..

AWESOME MAN CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. I MYSELF DONT REALLY LIKE HYBRIDS BUT COME ON ITS A BASS IF I COULD I WOULD GO TO THE AMAZON AND GET ALL THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF HYBRID BASS I CAN GET JUST TO HAVE SOMETHING UNIQE AND HAVE SOMETHING ELSE THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS EVEN IF IT IS A HYBRID. GOOD LUCK

Thankss

 

[Red Devil]

please stay on topic with out the flames ..i would hate to close this thread.. there is alot of good opinions and interesting info on this thread... keep it civil and it will live...i have cleaned up..

 

[Mosquito]

please stay on topic with out the flames ..i would hate to close this thread.. there is alot of good opinions and interesting info on this thread... keep it civil and it will live...i have cleaned up..

thanks mod..

 

[channarox]

Good question. I really don't know. I do know that they are wild caught. I also know that if they are hybrids that they are a naturally occuring hybrid not something purposefully created. I do know that I would be very disapointed to learn that they are hybrids. I tend to think that are simply a geographical variant of kelberi. It not at all out of the question to have a species of fish where one community is more colorful than the exact same fish from a different area. Lastly, they may not be kelberi at all but rather a new undescribed species.

I think that the whole comparison of wild hybrids to captive hybrids is an apple to oranges thing. Does hybridization occur in the wild? Absolutely. Amongst other things it can lead to new geographical races and possibly new species. It can diversify and strengthen the gene pool. The biggest difference is that in nature it is a natural thing. I also think that natural hybridization occurs a lot less often than what is being talked about here. Take Lake Malawi. It has the most diverse and wide ranging collection of different genre and species of cichlids of any body of water in the world. If hybridization was common you'd think that it would be rampant in such a setting yet it is seen surprisingly little. The fact is, each species has a mate of the same species to breed with. If hybridization does occur chances are very high that the offspring will seek out a pure mate from one of the two original parents. Each subsequent generation will do likewise until the genes of one of the two original parents are mostly bred out of the equation.

Take the Cichla that Jcardona posted. If it is a hybrid this fish will likely end up breeding with a pure orino or intermedia. The resultant offspring will then look more like the original wild parent of whichever specie the hybrid mates with. These off spring will likely seek out the fish that most looks like them and so on and so on. Eventually, for all pratical purposes they will look like a recognized naturally occuring species.

There's also the possibility that the fish posted is a geographical variant that has not been seen or described before. Just because it exhibits characteristics of two different species does not mean it is not a pure species itself. Jcardona's guess that it is a hybrid is just that, a guess.

Lake Malawi is so amazing that even fish of the same genre and species will only breed with mates that look just like them creating geographical variants of the same species. Essentially, in the wild these fish breed true.

Now take these same fish and stick them in an aquarium with a number of other species. Their natural drive to breed leads them to procreate with other fish that most of the time they would not even encounter in the wild. You have created conditions that make hybridization highly likely. This is not natural. Go to any board where they have "Help Me ID My Fish" section and 90% of them are Malawian mutts.



The problem with hybridization is that people always say they'd never release the babies into the market place but eventualy money or an unwillingness to destroy hundreds of fish leads them to sell them or give them to a store or other hobbyists. Once they are out in the field god only knows what they are or where they came from. Some people are fine with that as long as they look cool. I'm not. I'd rather know what I have. Call me anal I can live with it.

i completely agree...
THIS was what i meant by NATURAL.

and the last paragraph...this is what im talking about.
what happens to the MANY babies they might produce?

 

[syndicate]

whats the problem with with crossbreeding fish scat who cares if they dont occur in the wild do u have any other point to your argument? do u not want any new fish in the hobby??

but i suppose your right it better to keep raping the wild for all its fish so people like u can say "Mines wild caught"

 

[Scatocephalus]

whats the problem with with crossbreeding fish scat who cares if they dont occur in the wild do u have any other point to your argument? do u not want any new fish in the hobby??

but i suppose your right it better to keep raping the wild for all its fish so people like u can say "Mines wild caught"

I have already discussed why I'm against hybridization. The rest of your post is a rambling mess filled with crazy, baseless accusations. I've never said any of the things you are attributing to me. Please show me where I have ever said I'm against new fish in the hobby or am in favor of raping the wild so I can say my fish is wild caught. You can't because I have never said these things. If you're going to attack me and make accusations please at least make sure your facts are correct.

 

[I<3fish]

The problem with crossbreeding is some people like to keep the hobby pure, and why would you want to make a hybrid when there are so many fish to choose from?

And I think that the reason people like wild caught fish is because of how colorful they are.

To the OP: It's not going to happen, the eggs will be sterile. I don't even think they will pair up.

 

[channarox]

whats the problem with with crossbreeding fish scat who cares if they dont occur in the wild do u have any other point to your argument? do u not want any new fish in the hobby??

but i suppose your right it better to keep raping the wild for all its fish so people like u can say "Mines wild caught"

how would they be "new" fish?