How to get a blue cat?

[thebiggerthebetter]

Great resource, Viktor!

I really want to do a write up on US native cats too I think.

Have you seen the last link in my signature?

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FC: I'd be interested in knowing the relation between Blue and Channel cats and why they are soooooo similar in everything except size and how close are they REALLY related?
TBTB: They are close but not subspecies close. Cousin close. The feeding behavior differs too. If it helps, i tend to think their analogs in SE Asia would be the predatory paroon shark (blue) and scavenger iridescent shark (channel). IDK in the % how similar their DNAs are, if that's what you are aiming at. Just keep in mind human and monkey DNA is 98% the same.

FC: ....like can they hybridize or what?
TBTB: IDK about natural but they are hybridized at food fish farms, probably artificially. Necrocanis would tell us truck loads more but he is AWOL.

FC: And why are there different variations of Channel cats.....like from your LFS the "Blue Channel Catfish".....I know it's a Channel and not a Blue, but where did this terminology come from?
TBTB: I've had the same sincere incomprehension for years until other MFK-ers explained to me that this is done to differentiate the normal colored channels from the more common albinos. Still lacks much logic but at least it is digestible. They are all the same fish for our intents and purposes.

FC: And what about the other "__________ Channel catfish" variants?
TBTB: The other is albino. See above.

 

[Frank Castle]

Have you seen the last link in my signature?

#################################################

FC: I'd be interested in knowing the relation between Blue and Channel cats and why they are soooooo similar in everything except size and how close are they REALLY related?
TBTB: They are close but not subspecies close. Cousin close. The feeding behavior differs too. If it helps, i tend to think their analogs in SE Asia would be the predatory paroon shark (blue) and scavenger iridescent shark (channel). IDK in the % how similar their DNAs are, if that's what you are aiming at. Just keep in mind human and monkey DNA is 98% the same.

FC: ....like can they hybridize or what?
TBTB: IDK about natural but they are hybridized at food fish farms, probably artificially. Necrocanis would tell us truck loads more but he is AWOL.

FC: And why are there different variations of Channel cats.....like from your LFS the "Blue Channel Catfish".....I know it's a Channel and not a Blue, but where did this terminology come from?
TBTB: I've had the same sincere incomprehension for years until other MFK-ers explained to me that this is done to differentiate the normal colored channels from the more common albinos. Still lacks much logic but at least it is digestible. They are all the same fish for our intents and purposes.

FC: And what about the other "__________ Channel catfish" variants?
TBTB: The other is albino. See above.

I ve seen more variants than just blue and albino,.....just last week I saw a new variant I never seen before, I forget what it was called atm.......gimme some time lol

 

[Chicxulub]

Viktor: I remember you mentioning you were going to work on that. I'm glad to see you've made progress, I'll look into it soon.

Frank Castle : Blue catfish are Ictalurus furcatus, channels are I. punctatus. There are a bunch of other members of Ictalurus, but they're almost all found in Mexico and are irrelevant for discussions in the US. For channels, you have albino and blue/normal. They're called blue channel cats because when young, they do have a bit of a blue sheen to them.

Blues and channels can hybridize, but only through artificial means. They are fairly closely related, and occupy similar niches. The blues live in the main channels of large rivers, need lots of current, are apex predators and when in their natural habitat, primarily piscivorous. Channels occupy smaller tributaries, prefer moving water, can be apex predators in their environment, but are much more opportunitstic. Rarely are the two species found together in their natural riverine habitat. Finally, you get flatheads that can be found in all manner of rivers in the oxbows and lake like wide areas with little to no flow.

These three large catfish form a triumvirate of apex predators that occupy the threeprimary available niches in the continental river systems of the US. None of these fish are particularly common naturally in ponds; this niche belongs to many of the members of Ameiurus.

 

[Frank Castle]

Viktor: I remember you mentioning you were going to work on that. I'm glad to see you've made progress, I'll look into it soon.

Frank Castle : Blue catfish are Ictalurus furcatus, channels are I. punctatus. There are a bunch of other members of Ictalurus, but they're almost all found in Mexico and are irrelevant for discussions in the US. For channels, you have albino and blue/normal. They're called blue channel cats because when young, they do have a bit of a blue sheen to them.

Blues and channels can hybridize, but only through artificial means. They are fairly closely related, and occupy similar niches. The blues live in the main channels of large rivers, need lots of current, are apex predators and when in their natural habitat, primarily piscivorous. Channels occupy smaller tributaries, prefer moving water, can be apex predators in their environment, but are much more opportunitstic. Rarely are the two species found together in their natural riverine habitat. Finally, you get flatheads that can be found in all manner of rivers in the oxbows and lake like wide areas with little to no flow.

These three large catfish form a triumvirate of apex predators that occupy the threeprimary available niches in the continental river systems of the US. None of these fish are particularly common naturally in ponds; this niche belongs to many of the members of Ameiurus.

We forgot one more NA-Ictalurid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ictalurus_catus

Why does NO ONE ever mention this fish ever ?? and also why has it been reclassified as a Bullhead......they thought it was a Channel for the 1st few years they discovered them......

 

[Chicxulub]

Didn't forget it, I intentionally left it out.

It's an Ictalurid, but unlike what your link says, it's not from Ictalurus. It is properly classified as Ameiurus catus, which means it is technically a bullhead. It doesn't get nearly as large as the NA big three and it's behavior is more in line with that of a typical bullhead than the big three.

 

[Frank Castle]

Didn't forget it, I intentionally left it out.

It's an Ictalurid, but unlike what your link says, it's not from Ictalurus. It is properly classified as Ameiurus catus, which means it is technically a bullhead. It doesn't get nearly as large as the NA big three and it's behavior is more in line with that of a typical bullhead than the big three.

they don't even LOOK like Bullheads though......

 

[Chicxulub]

I'll agree, white cats are definitely the least derived of the Ameiurus lineage. While their relation to Ictalurus shows, they are still clearly bullheads. Have you ever had the chance to examine one in person? It becomes much more obvious.

They have a short and thick head with a wide mouth, they have a shallowly forked tail or lack a fork completely, their anal fin is shorter and rounder than Ictalurus et al, and they're generally found in lakes and ponds as opposed to moving water. I couldn't tell the difference between these and channels until I had both sitting on the bank one day and it became incredibly obvious to me.

Also, going back to the general vein of this thread, Ameiurus catus doesn't even begin to approach the size of the Big Three. A large white cat is maybe five pounds, but for one of the big three in a large river, that might not even be a keeper. The world record for a white cat is less than 20 pounds.

 

[Frank Castle]

I'll agree, white cats are definitely the least derived of the Ameiurus lineage. While their relation to Ictalurus shows, they are still clearly bullheads. Have you ever had the chance to examine one in person? It becomes much more obvious.

They have a short and thick head with a wide mouth, they have a shallowly forked tail or lack a fork completely, their anal fin is shorter and rounder than Ictalurus et al, and they're generally found in lakes and ponds as opposed to moving water. I couldn't tell the difference between these and channels until I had both sitting on the bank one day and it became incredibly obvious to me.

Also, going back to the general vein of this thread, Ameiurus catus doesn't even begin to approach the size of the Big Three. A large white cat is maybe five pounds, but for one of the big three in a large river, that might not even be a keeper. The world record for a white cat is less than 20 pounds.

exactly, what's the record for Bullheads of any other species? 4-5lbs?

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

exactly, what's the record for Bullheads of any other species? 4-5lbs?

We forgot one more NA-Ictalurid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ictalurus_catus

Why does NO ONE ever mention this fish ever ?? and also why has it been reclassified as a Bullhead......they thought it was a Channel for the 1st few years they discovered them......

Hey, Frank! Do you make it a point not to look at the database snippet I've attached several posts up? Teasing you but you set yourself up. It lists the catus and a couple of bullheads with max sizes from FishBase and Fishing World Records.

Rob's done a super job explaining why it was reclassified but to understand it more, you can read the revision that had done exactly this - moving catus from Ictaluriids into Ameiurus. Besides size and biology, it's hard to argue with a proper DNA study.

 

[Frank Castle]

Hey, Frank! Do you make it a point not to look at the database snippet I've attached several posts up? Teasing you but you set yourself up. It lists the catus and a couple of bullheads with max sizes from FishBase and Fishing World Records.

Rob's done a super job explaining why it was reclassified but to understand it more, you can read the revision that had done exactly this - moving catus from Ictaluriids into Ameiurus. Besides size and biology, it's hard to argue with a proper DNA study.

lol that's me, "The Absent Minded Professor" .....

even though technically i'm still just a "Mad Scientist" I DO tend to read through threads and when I see a link I'm like "Ok, i'll read it when i'm finished reading the thread", and sometimes I forget lol maybe I should go do that now......