Who asked for your input?
Well I did... I'm pretty sure I posted the question and I appreciate his answers.
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How to make your dat stable?
- Thread starter TheBroc
- Start date
Well I did... I'm pretty sure I posted the question and I appreciate his answers.
Sent from my LGMS769 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
Besides all of what you guys have mentioned, I think dimmed lighting helps datnoids become somewhat stable.. Because I notice when my bright daylight bulbs go on, bam, my Datnoid goes pale or really darkish, becomes shy, hides in a darker area of the tank, and isn't really active.. When the lights are off, voila.. the datnoid comes out. I believe lighting affects their stability as well among other things, IMO. 
Maybe my datnoid just isn't used to the intensity of the lighting yet or whatnot, but yeah, just my experiences..
Maybe my datnoid just isn't used to the intensity of the lighting yet or whatnot, but yeah, just my experiences..
+1. The great thing about a forum is getting answers fast. Many people just don't have time or know-how to research on the computer for hours and hours, and a lot of time you don't know if the info is outdated or not. Yes, questions gets recycled over and over, but that's what's producing "traffic/activities" on a forum which I'm certain is what the site owner wants. Plus, I'm confident there's a newbie(or veteran) reading this and learning something. Sure, I sometime get tired of seeing the same questions asked, but I either choose to help by answering it or just ignore and skip by it.....depending on my mood.
Sorry for going off topic
See my comment in the following past discussion ......
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?566878-Datnoid-stability-mystery
I agree with others, there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to dats. I have seen adult, single, dominant, dats, in a large mixed community remain unstable. From a previous thread on this subject....
I think that both camps are correct, that being the colors seen in a "stable" dat, and an "unstable" dat, can be caused by the same environmental triggers. Stimuli that may frighten or stress one fish, may trigger dominance or aggressive territorial behaviour in another.
The pigment cells in fish that are involved with color changes are called chromatophores. These cells can be altered due to morphological changes in the fishes environment such as background and/or substrate color, or from physiological responses to aggression, stress, etc.
In a stressed fish plasma cortisol levels increase, and cortisol levels are how researchers typically determine stress levels in fish when exposed to various conditions. Not all species, and perhaps even individual specimens within each species will react exactly the same to the same environmental or physiological stimuli.
As an example, in Nile tilapia a blue background causes an increase in aggression, where as a blue light causes a calming, protective role in stress in this species.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v34n8/4190.pdf
Fanta (16) argues that a blue background increases aggression in the Nile tilapia, and suggests that this color is not adequate for holding containers for this species. Conversely, the present data show that blue light has a protective role against stress for this same species
Hormonal color changes could explain why with an increase in age/size dats often become more stable, and tend to show what most would consider dominant coloration, vs camouflage (sub-dominant concealment) vs younger, less mature dats kept under the exact same tank conditions. In some tanks fish take on more dominant, territorial behaviour early on in life, even as small juvies, and this could also very well be sex (and hormone) related.
None of the above is outside the norm for many species of fish that are kept in captivity.
Clearly there is no question that some dats kept in a stressful environment appear to be what many refer to as "stable", displaying dominant colors, and there are dats that kept in these exact same conditions appear to be "unstable", as in displaying dark camo/concealment stress pattern & coloration.
Perhaps some fish fall under the "fight" response, and some fall under the "flight" response. Same stimuli, but opposite reaction based on size/sex/dominance/tank mates/overall health etc-etc.
IMO the reason for no real definitive answer to the "stability" question, is that no single answer is correct for all fish, of various age/size/sex, kept under all of the various conditions possible in captivity.
This is why in Indonesia hobbyists will state: That is the challenge of keeping tigers - swee swee kim kim (stable) one moment and then suddenly "orh-orh". (black/unstable)
With datnoids, this just seems to be part of the enigma and challenge that makes keeping them so interesting.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?566878-Datnoid-stability-mystery
I agree with others, there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to dats. I have seen adult, single, dominant, dats, in a large mixed community remain unstable. From a previous thread on this subject....
I think that both camps are correct, that being the colors seen in a "stable" dat, and an "unstable" dat, can be caused by the same environmental triggers. Stimuli that may frighten or stress one fish, may trigger dominance or aggressive territorial behaviour in another.
The pigment cells in fish that are involved with color changes are called chromatophores. These cells can be altered due to morphological changes in the fishes environment such as background and/or substrate color, or from physiological responses to aggression, stress, etc.
In a stressed fish plasma cortisol levels increase, and cortisol levels are how researchers typically determine stress levels in fish when exposed to various conditions. Not all species, and perhaps even individual specimens within each species will react exactly the same to the same environmental or physiological stimuli.
As an example, in Nile tilapia a blue background causes an increase in aggression, where as a blue light causes a calming, protective role in stress in this species.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v34n8/4190.pdf
Fanta (16) argues that a blue background increases aggression in the Nile tilapia, and suggests that this color is not adequate for holding containers for this species. Conversely, the present data show that blue light has a protective role against stress for this same species
Hormonal color changes could explain why with an increase in age/size dats often become more stable, and tend to show what most would consider dominant coloration, vs camouflage (sub-dominant concealment) vs younger, less mature dats kept under the exact same tank conditions. In some tanks fish take on more dominant, territorial behaviour early on in life, even as small juvies, and this could also very well be sex (and hormone) related.
None of the above is outside the norm for many species of fish that are kept in captivity.
Clearly there is no question that some dats kept in a stressful environment appear to be what many refer to as "stable", displaying dominant colors, and there are dats that kept in these exact same conditions appear to be "unstable", as in displaying dark camo/concealment stress pattern & coloration.
Perhaps some fish fall under the "fight" response, and some fall under the "flight" response. Same stimuli, but opposite reaction based on size/sex/dominance/tank mates/overall health etc-etc.
IMO the reason for no real definitive answer to the "stability" question, is that no single answer is correct for all fish, of various age/size/sex, kept under all of the various conditions possible in captivity.
This is why in Indonesia hobbyists will state: That is the challenge of keeping tigers - swee swee kim kim (stable) one moment and then suddenly "orh-orh". (black/unstable)
With datnoids, this just seems to be part of the enigma and challenge that makes keeping them so interesting.
Maybe they r females. . Has anyone able to tell between males n females?
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Let's get rid of the id charts that show the same kind of bold coloring between IT & ST. IT should have brown bars with a dirty gold base cause that's the percentages, just like ST should be shown with black bars & a deep light gold base..cause that's the percentages. These charts certainly don't help with giving realistic color expectations with IT..also by the percentages, young Indos are more likely to have deep black bars with a nice tanish gold base. Older Indos are more likely to have a shade of brown bars with a dirty gold base. These percentages I have found through my experience are ONLY for well fed & unstressed specimens. Unhealthy or stressed specimens by the percentages are most likely to have the highly sought after deep black & deep gold that I have witnessed in countless IT specimens. I can't imagine how many people have been told by an ignorant dat seller that they have a rare bold colored IT (for an inflated price) & alls they got was an everday normal colored Indo once (or if) the next own
I think my post got cut off a couple sentences somehow, lol...i guess to sum it up, there's different levels of stability with dats..there's IT stability, there's ST stability & so on. The same black n gold is not meant to be on each type (IT, ST), despite what id the charts show us...Like neon said, low light is prob the best way to view your Indo dat op..if those are the dats your referring to
Less light(no bright white 6x6500k hot5), add some hiding space, have dither fish, or add some more dats. I had 1 9" very stable for as long as I had him, then moved my group of 4 7" dats and he suddenly got darker. One of the 4 I put in however got very bright yellow. People always say that a fish brightens when it is 100% comfortable in their environment. That theory doesn't go with dats. Notice when u fish a dat out of the tank and put him in a bucket, it gets brighter? Just my 2cents but everyone has their own opinions and experiences
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