hypothetical stocking

[twentyleagues]

Ok so you can do as you suggest and if given enough hides you may get some shrimp surviving. Small shrimp will be eaten by guppies and definitely angels. Angel eggs will be eaten by everything in the tank at night. Snails will eat other snail eggs, so ramhorns will eat mystery and vice versa. Small guppies will be eaten by angels for sure. Now depending on the angels the ones I have had will not go after a fish bigger then about 3/4 inch for food. I had a particularly mean male black lace that would beat up little fish but not eat them. He would kill them by picking all their fins off, then just let them float. He would eat fry very happily, his own even.
With enough cover, plants, drift wood, caves this could work. You will have to give the shrimp a lot of a head start and probably the mystery snails and guppies next. Put enough food in and ramshorn's will breed no matter what so add them absolutely last. You will need a pretty dense dritwood tangle and plant area to keep your shrimp and guppies fry safe. Once you add plecos you will absolutely loose angel eggs every time.

 

[Magnus_Bane]

Ok so you can do as you suggest and if given enough hides you may get some shrimp surviving. Small shrimp will be eaten by guppies and definitely angels. Angel eggs will be eaten by everything in the tank at night. Snails will eat other snail eggs, so ramhorns will eat mystery and vice versa. Small guppies will be eaten by angels for sure. Now depending on the angels the ones I have had will not go after a fish bigger then about 3/4 inch for food. I had a particularly mean male black lace that would beat up little fish but not eat them. He would kill them by picking all their fins off, then just let them float. He would eat fry very happily, his own even.
With enough cover, plants, drift wood, caves this could work. You will have to give the shrimp a lot of a head start and probably the mystery snails and guppies next. Put enough food in and ramshorn's will breed no matter what so add them absolutely last. You will need a pretty dense dritwood tangle and plant area to keep your shrimp and guppies fry safe. Once you add plecos you will absolutely loose angel eggs every time.

I agree shrimp first is a must. Give them plenty of time and space to multiply as said. I would add the mystery snails after the shrimp have established themselves. And the guppies would be next after the snails. Give the guppies some time to reproduce atleast till they have about 18 females and 6 males fully grown. Then the Angels and bristlenose should be able to join in. And I definitely agree the ramshorn's should be very last. Also if you put a lamp over the spot with the angel fish eggs it should be enough to keep snails from bothering them and allows the Angels to intersept any of the plecos during the night. Shouldn't have trouble with the guppies during the night mainly because they are daiurnal not nocturnal like the plecos. Ik atleast with a lamp on over the brood I never had problems with my Angels protecting the eggs from the 2 bristlenose I had. The only problem I had was my black marble veiltail male always ate the fry about a week after they were free swimming. Sadly because of their constant breeding I ended up losing the female.

 

[duanes]

Agree with twenty leagues, although in nature the concept works, in a small tank (I don't consider a 125 large) this tank doesn't have the gradients necessary for small fish or shrimp to escape predation.
In nature small live bearers and their fry spend much of their time in shallow (sometimes 3" depth of less) where cichlids like angels can't go, only venturing into deep water with growth.

During daylight hours, many shrimp dig into mud and under leaf littler, only becoming active at night.

I cycled my 180 with about 2 dozen, mosquito fish, and planted heavily.

Within about a month of adding a dozen 3" relatively non-piscivorine cichlids, the live bearers were exterminated.
And when introducing the cichlids, similar sized shrimp (to the cichlids) and from the same river the cichlids were caught in were also added.

Even though the cichlids won't often attack a shrimp their same size alone, they will cooperate as team and kill shrimp en masse as a pack, in conditions where the shrimp have no where to go.


In less than 2 months, all shrimp added were also gone.
And the tank has plenty of hides, and is fairly heavily planted.
Snails were also common at first, not any more.

 

[duanes]

If you are looking for smaller species to keep as dithers with angels, you may want to try geographically correct, higher bodied tetras (not as easily swallowed), that have evolved the instinct, and speed to avoid becoming prey.


Guppies are not really from the same waters, whereas angels come from a bit more depth, inland,
guppies live in streams and shallow brackish pools, are surface dwellers, and from along coastal areas.

 

[jjohnwm]

^ Definitely agree with this. As appealing as the idea of a balanced predator/prey system may be, it takes a river, or a lake...or a continent...for it to work. The populations of both predator and prey are in a constant state of flux; everything is rising or falling. "Balanced" does not mean "static". It simply means that, over an extended period of time and a vast area, no individual species will disappear completely; but that kind of precarious balance simply won't happen in a 125-gallon tank. In the case you describe, the guppies and shrimp will eventually disappear, eaten by the angels. The angels will eventually grow to a size where virtually any Guppy and definitely any shrimp is a meal.

Additionally, shrimp often don't do well if introduced to a "raw" new tank; they thrive much better when added to an established, mature aquarium with luxuriant plant growth. I had a 120-gallon tank, heavily planted and housing a population of Heterandria mosquitofish, into which I introduced a couple dozen Red Cherry Shrimp. A year later I had thousands of shrimp, and had already given away, sold, culled and removed many hundreds. Then I introduced some Goodeid livebearers; when they reached adult size (around 3 inches) they were ruthless hunters of shrimp, and now, after another year...the shrimp are virtually wiped out in that tank.

This isn't a balance; it's just an extended feeding session. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you were going for. But...if you want to breed egglayers, you don't intentionally keep them with multiple critters that want to eat their eggs. If you want to breed small livebearers, you don't keep them with relatively large predatory fish. If you want to breed shrimp, you must exercise caution about tankmates in general; baby shrimp are tiny, colourful and active...i.e. they are the perfect live food for almost any fish.

 

[Raka]

I feel like Cory from Aquarium Co-op was breeding bristlenose, shrimp, and guppy's all together in a 40b but I cant seem to find the video.

He was aware there was small loses here and there but with lot's of plant cover all populations we increasing and profitable.

 

[jjohnwm]

Guppies and shrimp together will absolutely work; neither predates on the other to any significant extent. Not sure about the Bristlenose; I think mine probably munches on a shrimp here and there, but I don't think it's a very efficient predator.

Try adding adult angels to that mix and watch what happens.

 

[Raka]

Guppies and shrimp together will absolutely work; neither predates on the other to any significant extent. Not sure about the Bristlenose; I think mine probably munches on a shrimp here and there, but I don't think it's a very efficient predator.

Try adding adult angels to that mix and watch what happens.

If you shrimp falls prey to a bristlenose in a breeding tank its probably for the best. Mine have a hard time getting onto an algae wafer first try.

 

[jjohnwm]

Lol, mine is not much better. He is seen perhaps once a month or so, unless I check after tank lights are off and with a dim night light in the room.

But in a thriving breeding colony, there are so many individual shrimp that even a klutz like that will likely eat a couple, if only by accident...