Yes, I would also love to hear an honest appraisal on the results vs cost, and see comparisons (lol we don't ask much, do we?)
I also dumped my pc
- Thread starter Chaitika
- Start date
No worries, Stan. 
Why the switch?
My dell was 3 years old and and was showing it's age. Windows xp was getting to be clunky and yes I could have reformatted, but I still would have needed more hd space. The dell had a 30gb hard drive. The samsung monitor was a pita to calibrate properly. I could never reset it to factory defaults in order to do a proper calibration. Sporting the same pic on each monitor, the samsung is definitely darker, hence the comment earlier in the thread about having posted some pics online that would have been somewhat better had I been using the mac display. Nothing atrociously different, and certainly not in every pic but enough to bug me now that I see it, lol.
I have not calibrated the mac yet.
512MB of DDR ram left me lacking and that sort of RAM is simply too expensive to upgrade. Working with RAW files in CS3 was a bit cumbersome for the p4 processor and I wanted a larger monitor.
Also, no viruses for macs.
So basically it was between pc and mac. I don't do any gaming any more and if I wanted to, I'd hop on the ps3 and HD lcd TV.
A friend of mine does graphic design for a living on a mac and was able to give me some good feedback and so I went with mac. There was nothing really pushing me towards a mac, except curiousity. More than likely, the decision was based on me wanting something different. It was a process that went on for the last few months.
The decision went something like this: spend my saved money on a lens and continue to do pp work on an inferior comp, or upgrade the comp and save again for a lens. I simply upgraded the weakest link in my photography work flow.
Why the switch?
My dell was 3 years old and and was showing it's age. Windows xp was getting to be clunky and yes I could have reformatted, but I still would have needed more hd space. The dell had a 30gb hard drive. The samsung monitor was a pita to calibrate properly. I could never reset it to factory defaults in order to do a proper calibration. Sporting the same pic on each monitor, the samsung is definitely darker, hence the comment earlier in the thread about having posted some pics online that would have been somewhat better had I been using the mac display. Nothing atrociously different, and certainly not in every pic but enough to bug me now that I see it, lol.
I have not calibrated the mac yet.
512MB of DDR ram left me lacking and that sort of RAM is simply too expensive to upgrade. Working with RAW files in CS3 was a bit cumbersome for the p4 processor and I wanted a larger monitor.
Also, no viruses for macs.
So basically it was between pc and mac. I don't do any gaming any more and if I wanted to, I'd hop on the ps3 and HD lcd TV.
A friend of mine does graphic design for a living on a mac and was able to give me some good feedback and so I went with mac. There was nothing really pushing me towards a mac, except curiousity. More than likely, the decision was based on me wanting something different. It was a process that went on for the last few months.
The decision went something like this: spend my saved money on a lens and continue to do pp work on an inferior comp, or upgrade the comp and save again for a lens. I simply upgraded the weakest link in my photography work flow.
Gerry, that's a very nice new system!
I'd like to know if you have any issues with screen trace - ie after using PS for a while (30 mins or so) switch out of it and see if you can see the outlines of your menu boxes, I know this used to be an issue on some iMac monitors, though I'm sure it will have been addressed by now.
I do like Macs but I feel it is more for their appearance and interface than it is their abilities, I was recently going to start a thread asking what the appeal was of Macs, but as you've started this I figured I'd add my thoughts here. Personally I consider them highly overpriced, the OS is nice and stable and the lack of vulnerabilities is a big plus, but stability and security are things you can manufacture in windows, it just isn't inherent "out-the-box" as it is with Macs. I'm certainly not saying macs are no good either (Gerry I don't want you to think I'm saying you made a bad choice, this is just my opinion). Macs are smooth runners and utilize what is on offer better than windows does, so less is more (thanks largely to the processing power "doze" sucks out of everything just to run). It goes without saying that "out-the-box" macs are going to be better in regards to image and video processing, simply because that is what they are geared for. In the past I used macs exclusively when working on video projects and they are very pleasant to work with, I just cannot agree with the price tag considering what can be built for the same $1500. The influencing factor "pro-Mac", I would guess, is that a PC requires more calibration and tuning (ergo more technical knowledge) to get it as smooth running and accurate in terms of image presentation.
What are your thoughts on this (anyone)?
PC upgrades aren't that expensive any more so you may as well juice up your old system whilst you feel rich, then you'll have a zippy entertainment centre that kids (young and old) can watch movies and play games on (and if so inclined, to see how it fares with PS.) 2gb PC2700 DDR RAM can be had for $40. The nVidia 8800GT is only around $80 and boasts a 600mhz clock and 512mb of RAM. Sure the nVidia isn't the best, but for a measly $80 it's certainly capable (and DirectX10 compatible) of taking a load off the CPU. 2gb of RAM use is seldom reached even when running multiple programs - I run CS3 whilst browsing and watching movies/listening to music, or switching in and out of graphics intensive games and I haven't come close.
With the extra RAM availability you can change PS settings to allow it the use of a lot more RAM (<1gb). Also, reducing the Virtual Memory of windows is a quick way of speeding things up as long as you've got enough free RAM under heavy load (to act as a safety buffer - if you turn off Virtual Memory and use up all the RAM you will have instability/crashes).
You might find this interesting if you want to upgrade your iMac in the future:
http://www.amfiteatar.org/content/view/155/78/lang,en/
This is my coming $1500 PCs main specs alongside the $1500 24" iMacs. Gerry, my current system is 6 years old! :lol: And you thought yours was antiquated.
PC - Intel Core2 Quad Core Q9550 (2.83GHz, 12MB Cache,1333MHz)
Mac - Intel Core 2 Duo (2.8GHz, 6MB Cache, 1066MHz)
PC - 8192MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM - (4 x 2GB)
Mac - 2049MB (not sure on full spec but it will be fast RAM for sure)
PC - 1TB HD Serial ATA 2 32MB Buffer
Mac - 320Gb HD
PC - 1GB NVIDIA GeForce with CUDA GTX285 Graphics Plus - PhysX enabled, DVI, HDTV, TV-Out
Mac - 256MB ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
PC - 22" Iiyama ProLite (1920x1080) HD Monitor (DVI,VGA,WS,5ms)
Mac - 24" (1920 x 1200)
PC extras - HUSH Silent Brushed Aluminium ATX Midi Tower
Heat pipe quiet cooling, Performance updates, specialist cabling - allows me to overclock CPU and GPU even more.
Don't get me wrong, if I had the cash to spare I'd have my PC with a Mac right alongside it, but I'd still custom build the Mac to save $$$'s on upgrades. I just don't see how Macs are really a viable option for those outside of the industry or with little cash to spare, especially when considering the difference in overall power+storage < cost. Sorry to have turned this into a review, I just thought it may be of relevant interest and I'd love to hear your take on how the system performs, especially if you can get on a similar priced PC for comparison.
I hope you enjoy the new system, one thing I certainly envy you for is your lack of security vulnerabilities, I've been running my system for 6 years with no problems but recently got hijacked with a vicious virus that took 3 days to kill off, only to end in a total reformat. I tell ya, if you'd asked me what I thought then I would have told you the extra cost is worth every darn penny :lol:.
I look forward to seeing your first set of processed shots from the mac, will you PM me and let me know when they're up - I don't always have time to check all the sub-forums and I don't want to miss it.
I'd like to know if you have any issues with screen trace - ie after using PS for a while (30 mins or so) switch out of it and see if you can see the outlines of your menu boxes, I know this used to be an issue on some iMac monitors, though I'm sure it will have been addressed by now.
I do like Macs but I feel it is more for their appearance and interface than it is their abilities, I was recently going to start a thread asking what the appeal was of Macs, but as you've started this I figured I'd add my thoughts here. Personally I consider them highly overpriced, the OS is nice and stable and the lack of vulnerabilities is a big plus, but stability and security are things you can manufacture in windows, it just isn't inherent "out-the-box" as it is with Macs. I'm certainly not saying macs are no good either (Gerry I don't want you to think I'm saying you made a bad choice, this is just my opinion). Macs are smooth runners and utilize what is on offer better than windows does, so less is more (thanks largely to the processing power "doze" sucks out of everything just to run). It goes without saying that "out-the-box" macs are going to be better in regards to image and video processing, simply because that is what they are geared for. In the past I used macs exclusively when working on video projects and they are very pleasant to work with, I just cannot agree with the price tag considering what can be built for the same $1500. The influencing factor "pro-Mac", I would guess, is that a PC requires more calibration and tuning (ergo more technical knowledge) to get it as smooth running and accurate in terms of image presentation.
What are your thoughts on this (anyone)?
PC upgrades aren't that expensive any more so you may as well juice up your old system whilst you feel rich, then you'll have a zippy entertainment centre that kids (young and old) can watch movies and play games on (and if so inclined, to see how it fares with PS.) 2gb PC2700 DDR RAM can be had for $40. The nVidia 8800GT is only around $80 and boasts a 600mhz clock and 512mb of RAM. Sure the nVidia isn't the best, but for a measly $80 it's certainly capable (and DirectX10 compatible) of taking a load off the CPU. 2gb of RAM use is seldom reached even when running multiple programs - I run CS3 whilst browsing and watching movies/listening to music, or switching in and out of graphics intensive games and I haven't come close.
With the extra RAM availability you can change PS settings to allow it the use of a lot more RAM (<1gb). Also, reducing the Virtual Memory of windows is a quick way of speeding things up as long as you've got enough free RAM under heavy load (to act as a safety buffer - if you turn off Virtual Memory and use up all the RAM you will have instability/crashes).
You might find this interesting if you want to upgrade your iMac in the future:
http://www.amfiteatar.org/content/view/155/78/lang,en/
This is my coming $1500 PCs main specs alongside the $1500 24" iMacs. Gerry, my current system is 6 years old! :lol: And you thought yours was antiquated.
PC - Intel Core2 Quad Core Q9550 (2.83GHz, 12MB Cache,1333MHz)
Mac - Intel Core 2 Duo (2.8GHz, 6MB Cache, 1066MHz)
PC - 8192MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM - (4 x 2GB)
Mac - 2049MB (not sure on full spec but it will be fast RAM for sure)
PC - 1TB HD Serial ATA 2 32MB Buffer
Mac - 320Gb HD
PC - 1GB NVIDIA GeForce with CUDA GTX285 Graphics Plus - PhysX enabled, DVI, HDTV, TV-Out
Mac - 256MB ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
PC - 22" Iiyama ProLite (1920x1080) HD Monitor (DVI,VGA,WS,5ms)
Mac - 24" (1920 x 1200)
PC extras - HUSH Silent Brushed Aluminium ATX Midi Tower
Heat pipe quiet cooling, Performance updates, specialist cabling - allows me to overclock CPU and GPU even more.
Don't get me wrong, if I had the cash to spare I'd have my PC with a Mac right alongside it, but I'd still custom build the Mac to save $$$'s on upgrades. I just don't see how Macs are really a viable option for those outside of the industry or with little cash to spare, especially when considering the difference in overall power+storage < cost. Sorry to have turned this into a review, I just thought it may be of relevant interest and I'd love to hear your take on how the system performs, especially if you can get on a similar priced PC for comparison.
I hope you enjoy the new system, one thing I certainly envy you for is your lack of security vulnerabilities, I've been running my system for 6 years with no problems but recently got hijacked with a vicious virus that took 3 days to kill off, only to end in a total reformat. I tell ya, if you'd asked me what I thought then I would have told you the extra cost is worth every darn penny :lol:.
I look forward to seeing your first set of processed shots from the mac, will you PM me and let me know when they're up - I don't always have time to check all the sub-forums and I don't want to miss it.
Blair, I appreciate this feedback and comparison. And I am not 'bashing' Macs at all either, but agree it takes some looking-into before investing in one.
In fact, I have been struggling/weighing the cost of changing to Mac myself and, having worked on both professionally (in a limited capacity, granted) I actually saw no quantifiable user-end difference (although the work was for an advertiser-supported mini mag publisher, so the difference was undoubtedly in the overall system from submission though pre-press to the presses).
From where I sat it was more 'this button is on the left for Mac but on the right for PC'. We had system show-downs and shut downs like everyone else. They also had an entire department, of course, to maintain the servers and stations. We did make use of lots of PCs in addition to the Macs!
So when considering one for my photo processing, I am looking for the 'clincher' that makes the extra investment an obvious benefit?
The no-virus thing is a plus, of course, but I have been told it is more that Macs simply aren't targeted as frequently as PCs, rather than they are intrinsically less vulnerable. Anyone here know if that's the case?
In fact, I have been struggling/weighing the cost of changing to Mac myself and, having worked on both professionally (in a limited capacity, granted) I actually saw no quantifiable user-end difference (although the work was for an advertiser-supported mini mag publisher, so the difference was undoubtedly in the overall system from submission though pre-press to the presses).
From where I sat it was more 'this button is on the left for Mac but on the right for PC'. We had system show-downs and shut downs like everyone else. They also had an entire department, of course, to maintain the servers and stations. We did make use of lots of PCs in addition to the Macs!
So when considering one for my photo processing, I am looking for the 'clincher' that makes the extra investment an obvious benefit?
The no-virus thing is a plus, of course, but I have been told it is more that Macs simply aren't targeted as frequently as PCs, rather than they are intrinsically less vulnerable. Anyone here know if that's the case?
Blair, nice write-up. I cannot disagree with your assessment. The bit about ram is a little off. The Dell system I had was not DDR SDRAM, it was a different and very expensive type of DDR RAM. I just can't think of the lettering right now.
10 years ago, I was all for tweaking and upgrading, just like with the firefox 3 issue. At this point in my life, it is very much about getting performance out of the box so to speak and trying a whole different system. I also want nothing more to do with Windows. It is an inferior product and I'm tired of security vulnerabilities and virus protection. Personally I have my own conspiracy theories about that, but I'll keep it to myself for now, lol.
I don't think there will be a great difference in my output but my workflow will be much more efficient, and I'll be able to use Itunes at the same time, lol. Working with 15MB RAW files in Bridge and CS3 will be much faster.
The other thing I didn't mention was exactly what you talk about when you mention an entertainment/gaming system for young and old. I don't want my son taking this machine over!! LOL He did that with my Dell until I had one built for him.
Thanks for the link on the upgrades. I've already picked up a 1TB external hard drive to do back ups on with the "Time Machine" feature on the mac.
Cathy, it very much is that macs are not inherently safer. They are simply not targeted.
10 years ago, I was all for tweaking and upgrading, just like with the firefox 3 issue. At this point in my life, it is very much about getting performance out of the box so to speak and trying a whole different system. I also want nothing more to do with Windows. It is an inferior product and I'm tired of security vulnerabilities and virus protection. Personally I have my own conspiracy theories about that, but I'll keep it to myself for now, lol.
I don't think there will be a great difference in my output but my workflow will be much more efficient, and I'll be able to use Itunes at the same time, lol. Working with 15MB RAW files in Bridge and CS3 will be much faster.
The other thing I didn't mention was exactly what you talk about when you mention an entertainment/gaming system for young and old. I don't want my son taking this machine over!! LOL He did that with my Dell until I had one built for him.
Thanks for the link on the upgrades. I've already picked up a 1TB external hard drive to do back ups on with the "Time Machine" feature on the mac.
Cathy, it very much is that macs are not inherently safer. They are simply not targeted.
I'd say they're targeted less because of the lower market share. [hopefully this continues to be the case!]
I think it's a choice. Some guys love to dig in and tweak, some just like it done for them. I personally I'm in the latter group[100% end user] and my brother in the former[tech support].
-----
Consider this-DIY'ing a PC is a talent!
All my previous pc's[pre 2004] were put together by my brother.
It appears to be easy because it made sense to those that are inclined like my brother. To me it looks like a very complicated jigsaw puzzle-have to research all the specs, navigate the shops for all the parts and software, figure out all the boot settings etc
Whenever something doesn't work, the helpless feeling turns to frustration, sometimes to anger. [This is just from sitting on the sidelines!]
Having use both systems for close to 20 years, I find some things like fashion/looks comes with a price. Performance? Forget about that-Generic PC DIY'ed wins the numbers.
However, there is something very appealing about using a MAC as opposed to using a generic PC. OS9 looked similar to it's Windows counterpart but OSX was like a breath of fresh air which prompted me to switch.
Isn't it great to have something that works out of the box?
No antivirus running in the bg, No paranoia of unknown pen drives, no virtual doomsdays, ...[not yet since switching to mac from 2004]
Sorry Windows, I doubt I'd switch back. i might get a gaming machine for some PC games but the PS2 has me satisfied at the moment.
I think it's a choice. Some guys love to dig in and tweak, some just like it done for them. I personally I'm in the latter group[100% end user] and my brother in the former[tech support].
-----
Consider this-DIY'ing a PC is a talent!
All my previous pc's[pre 2004] were put together by my brother.
It appears to be easy because it made sense to those that are inclined like my brother. To me it looks like a very complicated jigsaw puzzle-have to research all the specs, navigate the shops for all the parts and software, figure out all the boot settings etc
Whenever something doesn't work, the helpless feeling turns to frustration, sometimes to anger. [This is just from sitting on the sidelines!]
Having use both systems for close to 20 years, I find some things like fashion/looks comes with a price. Performance? Forget about that-Generic PC DIY'ed wins the numbers.
However, there is something very appealing about using a MAC as opposed to using a generic PC. OS9 looked similar to it's Windows counterpart but OSX was like a breath of fresh air which prompted me to switch.
Isn't it great to have something that works out of the box?
No antivirus running in the bg, No paranoia of unknown pen drives, no virtual doomsdays, ...[not yet since switching to mac from 2004]
Sorry Windows, I doubt I'd switch back. i might get a gaming machine for some PC games but the PS2 has me satisfied at the moment.
I think this really is one of the strong selling points with Macs and I certainly understand its appeal.
I suppose one could simplify it like this - you get more out of less with a Mac so the specs aren't usually as "good" as a similar priced PC. But the extra that you pay for a mac really is for the efficiency and security of the way it was built and developed. A PC of the same specifications as your iMac, although cheaper, would not run as efficiently. You cannot overlook the fact that macs are achieving similar performance to a more powerful PC from less powerful equipment. It speaks volumes about the Mac OS.
This is what has always attracted me to macs. But I am one of those tweakers that Stan mentions, so for the same price I can get a lot more out of a PC... Were I not a tweaker I think I'd go for the mac too. If I were to recommend one to a non-tweaker, it'd be a Mac (considering the primary focus is going to be those interested in photo/video editing). So it really just boils down to personal choice (especially the technical level you're willing to work with).
The conspiracy theories, I'm with you on that one and you didn't even have to say anything :lol: - it'd be no surprise to me if the vulnerabilities were intentional, good way to keep an entire line of Anti-virus products selling eh. But we'll leave that for now >) otherwise my PC might electrocute me the next time I hit the power switch... ( sorry windows, I didn't mean it, please don't crash on me, for the love of God don't crash on me.)
As for the RAM, the fastest/most expensive ($700+) I know of used to be Corsair XMS2 Dominator PC2-10000, I wouldn't want to replace that either and if that is the sort of RAM you were running in your old system then an upgrade wouldn't have done much unless you really juiced up the CPU, which on an older system usually means a new MoBo and so on... Just not worth it in those instances as you end up forking out enough for a new system anyway.
All of this is just my opinion of course.
For what it's worth (and for what you want from your system) I think you made the right choice, Gerry.
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Congrats on your new "toy", although I am a PC-er nothing bits mac when it comes to graphic work.
blairo1;91440; said:
Thanks!
Blair, that was the issue. It made no sense to upgrade RAM when I would have needed a new mobo, cpu, etc.
But now that I know your abilities, I will be looking you up when my son wants an upgrade.
Thanks, biguran!
PS~~Now that I have the 360 up and running in a stable fashion and the full Adobe Suite Premium is now loaded on the mac, I have no more excuses and can again focus on photography.
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