I hope HR 669 Passes

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One of the things that I think was missed here unless they changed it is that all non-native species are banned with the few exceptions (horses, farm animals, goldfish, etc...) and anything that will be re-allowed will have to go through a white list process.

Now that means anything not native to the continental U.S. is not allowed to be sold, breed, or cross state lines until that specific specimen is researched, approved and put on the white list. This process will take absolutely forever to go through every species and then sub-species. I think our brothers down under have had to go through this process maybe they should chime in.

While I agree that better controls need to be put in place for certain species it should be up to the state government and not the federal to decide. After all what will survive and thrive in Florida will surely die in Alaska and each species should be decided as such.

Our government as it is is over stepping it's bounds in many areas; The primary responsibilities of our government is to provide infrastructure, a monetary system and to protect our land from foreign threats and not much else but people keep giving them more power that they shouldn't have. Most of what happens in the borders of the state is supposed to be decided by the state to keep the federal government from gaining too much power over the citizens.
 
Ok maube I'm a little late to this but you keep referencing that if a fish you like is banned then you are willing to pay more for it from a domestic breeder? This is just wrong. The ban specifically mentions that breeding, sale, and interstate movement of any species on the list would be just as illegal as importing them. So guess what, the price wouldn't go up, the fish would go away.
(most likely a complete waste of my 300th post)
 
Lets see if I follow this correctly. The passing of thos bill will have little impact other than to ensure the animals are better cared for due to higher prices.

Step 1: Bill passes making majority of fish, reptiles and small animals illegal until proven otherwise.

Step 2: Program in place to delist each species is a long exhaustive process by an underfunded and short staffed government agency. This requires that said species not be invasive and harmful anywhere in the country. Living in Florida I can tell you that most things can survive here just fine. No provision is given for grandfathering in said species until delisted or found detrimental(if there is I missed it, sorry).

Step 3: While the US is only a part of the animal trade world, it would still represent a substantial income deficit to anyone involved in the export business with resultant trickle down effects. What animals are allowed would become prohibitively more expensive over time as fewer people can afford them.

Step 4: Without being able to buy, breed or even legally own these animals, who will be buying all the hard goods and why? Smaller specialty stores will fold first followed by larger companies as they are unable to operate simply on the small markup of dog and cat food.

Step 5: Companies that make supplies for the pet trade(that is now practically non-existent) will either close up or relocate to other countries, causing even more job loss and economic hardship.

Step 6: Jack booted soldiers bust down doors based on info gleaned from sites such as this to confiscate and destroy illegal contraband and fine or detain you for breaking federal law.

So maybe 6 is a little farfetched, but the rest isn't. So explain how the almost total destruction of the US pet trade doesn't hurt anything. And if it passes, while you're standing there patting yourself on the back, take a moment to reflect on how you will accept the next bill, outlawing non native dogs and cats.
 
cguarino30, you REALLY aren't understanding the bill. First of all, consider this aspect:

If the bill were to pass, they would not be making an assessment/study of what would be invasive, but what would non-invasive.

Meaning instead of a list of banned species, we'd have a list of allowed species.

A list that would be significantly smaller than what your allowed to keep now.

Moreover, fish not on the list are automatically banned and cannot be bred, sold, imported, or transferred between state.

So really, any "good" is outweighed by the loss.
 
cguarino30, you were not accused of Nazi thinking, you were accused of thinking in the manner that allowed the Nazis to take power. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. See if this rings any bells:
[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]​
[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]Pastor Martin Niemöller

[/FONT][FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]Read the bill. In it's entirety, because it is blatantly obvious you have only scanned it and taken what you wanted to understand of it rather than read and attempt to understand what is really there in legal language.

Goldfish are the ONLY non-native fish NOT banned until further study. You may not PURCHASE, SELL, TRADE, GIVE, TRANSPORT ACROSS STATE LINES(if you move), BREED OR ALLOW TO BREED any of the animals not on the approved list. Even if a fish you wish to breed gets onto the "approved" list, they will STILL be unmailable. Some of these species are already extinct in the wild, by the time they can get approved, any breeding stock left that is LEGALLY kept under "grandfathering" provided for under the bill might be too old to actually breed. So either we have to depend on people breaking the law or risk losing species.
This is a bad bill. The brush stroke is way too wide. Banning needs to be state by state, what is invasive in one state may or may not be invasive in another. Snakeheads are a perfect example, 22 species, 2 of which are capable of surviving in most of the US. The invasive species weren't even brought as pets, they were brought as food fish, "poor man's lobster", yet all 22 species were banned by the federal government. Where is the logic in that?!? Keep the federal government out of it, they haven't a clue.
You do not see it as an infringement of a "basic right". I see it as an infringement of rights, period. I am a veteran, I am a second generation fishkeeper and I take this bill personally.
[/FONT][FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]

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This thread is gold. You guys are so dramatic. Best case scenario is the bill folds. Middle ground is you get a noxious list and a grey list of stuff you can't import but can legally trade, breed, own blah blah, basically what is in the country is what you have to work with, natives are a free for all. Worst case you end up like us in Australia. No exotic reptiles, amphibians or inverts. Very few exotic birds. Common aquarium species imports only, a big noxious list and a massive grey list.
Funnily enough our pet trade still survives (including LFS) because your average folk are happy to buy common fish cos they aren't expensive to replace when they kill them through lack of knowledge. Rarer stuff can be sourced through aquarium societes and fellow hobbyists as well a better LFS. The blackmarket is there for serious hobbyists who desires the "how and where did you get that?!" and noxious fish and has ample cash to spend. Every now and then the government has a hissy fit and shifts some stuff from the grey list to the noxious list, effectively encouraging the importing of fish they don't want in the country by making them worth more to smugglers. When this happens we all grrrr for a bit then get on with it. No-one here really likes it but that's how it is, the government does what it wants with or without the hobbyists approval.
And FYI, comparing this bill to the Nazis taking over Europe is possibly the most retarded thing I have seen on this forum in a good while.
 
@masone

They are not comparing the bill itself to the Nazis coming to power, but with this and other legislation that is coming up lately our government is heading in a not so friendly direction. People often forget or are ignorant to that unless you fight for freedom you lose it and everyone that doesn't understand that will willingly give up each freedom one at a time thinking it's for the greater good. Then the day comes where all the freedoms you have enjoyed are no longer available and the government has absolute say. Granted the Australian government is a different system than the U.S., you should never be happy with a government that decides everything for you and never leaves you a choice.

Another thing that is forgotten is that the U.S. is run by mostly greedy lawyers and what is to stop them from using a bill of this sort for there own personal agendas and that is not conspiracy theory it happens with every other law that has every been made.
 
I agee in spirit with what this bill is trying to do. I do however think that this bill takes things too far. This bill is meant to controll the spread of invasive species and prevent new ones from becoming established. Look at what Burmese pythons are doing to the everglades its not cool. And then there is the problemof snakeheads which are giving the politicians a scare because they are in the potomic. Lets just think of a scenario... convicts have evolved to survive ice covered water and near freezing tempatures. They would be unstopable! We would be the US of C (United states of convict). So if this bill passes and all the stuff people are saying happens... then sailfin mollies and Rio Grande Perch are gonna be mighty populare!
 
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