I need YOUR help coming up with a solution with reference to my monster goldfish!

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Redearsunfish

Redearsunfish

Piranha
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Aug 6, 2009
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So i have a fairly large Ranchu that is losing its sight due to an encroaching wen. I've read all about putting the fish under clove oil to knock it out and cutting away the excess wen from the eye. Here's my issues, and here's where I hope you can help me out, because I've been throwing this around in my mind for a while now:

1. I don't want to put the fish under. I don't like the idea, and I've read that clove oil can negatively affect the gills, and to be frank, my ranchu's wen covers the gill plates and i don't want to remove any more wen than i have to, that being the wen over his eyes... - therefore I'd rather not mess with his gill functionality since his gills aren't as free and unencumbered as they are in most fish.

2. Wen is slippery stuff. Gooey stuff. Cutting it can be an issue, but with a pair of sharp fine cutting scissors i should be o.k. The problem is, I'll be cutting directly over his eyes and getting a hold of the wen to separate it from his eyeballs themselves seems tricky. You know... one slip and bye bye sight all together. So I tired to come up with some way of separating the wen from his eye so I could comfortably get under to cut. That would be easier if he were asleep, but i don't want to put him under. If i put him under i could simply use tongs or surgical spatula. But i don't want to do that.​

So... given the fact that he'll be awake and out of the water, i want to employ a method that will be quick and a method that will effectively lift the wen from his eyeball so i can make quick SURE cuts.

I came up with this, what if i was somehow able to create suction, like at the end of a water change hose, and apply suction to the wen, effectively lifting it from the eyeball, and allowing me to get under to cut it away? The suction point would have to be small, like an airline tubing, like the suction thing a dentist uses to suck the saliva out of your mouth.

My question: How do I create suction like this? What can I use? Can I use airline tubing an a air pump in reverse somehow? Perhaps a water lifter pump? The kind used in auto-top off systems for tanks?

Your thoughts good sirs and madames? Help me out. I need to separate the wen from the eye. suction came to me today. Is this viable? How do I employ suction in this way, effectively?

The problem is if the suction is too strong it could damage his eye as well...
 
Just a theory.
Using a venturi tube you could attempt to solve 2 problems at once.
While pumping water thru the tube, over the fish (into mouth thru gills) an air line with sufficient length, attached to the venturi port where suction is created, could be held near the wen (in theory) pulling it away from the eye.
I use venturis to pull air from above the surface of my tanks, and into the flow of the pump effluent.
Venturis are also used to combine chemicals in water treatment, where the major one is sent thru the large port, and any lesser amount pulled thru the venturi port.
We used venturis to create chloramine but sending a 5 part chlorine chlorine solution thru the main port, and 1 part ammonia thru the venturi port (the venturi port is the vertical aperture on the horizontal tube)
 
I was also going to suggest a venturi. If you have a running filter of some kind that has a high flow tube return or a power head you can make a very easy ventri with air lines


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I was thinking of wrapping it in a wet towel.

I don't know.

I've done it before in hand when i cut some of the wen around his gill plates away. The fish allows me to handle it out of the water without issue.

the problem is the eyes... i'd rather not put it to sleep, at least with clove oil.

Unless its safe.. which i heard it might not be?
 
Either way, I would still use at least a half or even a quarter dose of clove oil, or a commercial product that can be sourced from various aquatic suppliers. The following instructions (including the cold cloth/water method sans clove oil) were taken from an online source years back.

"To sedate with clove oil

Things you will need:

• Clove Oil - to sedate the fish, so you can treat it. You should be able to find some at a pharmacy (look in the toothache section).
• Clean Towel and pillowcase
• 2 Buckets one for sedation and one to transport fish back to its tank
• Airstone

Instructions

• Set up your work area and make sure everything is very clean.
o Lay out a towel and one of those hospital blue pads. a pillowcase on top would also work (it's smoother than the towel)
o Lay out your other materials within easy reach
• Place 5 drops of clove oil and some water in a ziplock freezer bag for every 4 litres of water needed to submerge the fish.
• Shake well, then pour into container where fish will be sedated. Use water from the tank if possible and match tank temperature. An airstone would help to keep the mixture dispersed.
• Place fish in the solution. When it turns over on its side and gill movements slow, remove it from the solution, perform the procedure. If the fish doesn't roll over in 5 minutes, then add another drop per 4 litres (shake it up in water before adding).
• You will want to work quickly and finish the procedure you're performing as quickly as possible.
• Make sure you keep one hand on the fish at all times in case he starts flopping around. Don't want any falls off the counter!
• After you're done place the fish in a bucket of clean water and return him to the tank.
• You may need to hold the fish for a little while in an area where fresh water is moving through its gills (e.g. by the outflow of the filter) until he gets less groggy.

To perform a procedure without sedation:

Procedures can also be done without sedating the fish, however, care must be taken to make sure fish doesn't get away from you and take a fall. It will be more stressful for the fish without sedation. Place a heavy towel dampened with cold tap water as your base and then place another heavy cold tap water dampened towel over the fish covering the head but leaving the areas you're working on exposed. This will help to keep the fish from flopping around and may help to keep them calm. Keep one hand on the fish at all times. Be sure to have everything that you need laid out ahead of time. "



It's important to know that over dosing clove oil can be fatal in fish. Please do your own research along with this article prior to using clove oil.

Using clove oil to sedate a fish is also a very humane method for fish euthanasia. Use the method above then place the fish in the clove oil solution into the freezer. I have used a slightly stronger clove oil amount when doing this in the past with quick and humane results.
Click to expand...
 
RD. said:
Either way, I would still use at least a half or even a quarter dose of clove oil, or a commercial product that can be sourced from various aquatic suppliers. The following instructions (including the cold cloth/water method sans clove oil) were taken from an online source years back.
Click to expand...

i'm considering it more and more. I'd hate to damage its gills with the oil though?
 
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